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Sapper

Official DNC thread

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Privilege? How do you discern the difference between a privilege and a freedom or a right? How do you quantify it? Technically the state says that driving is a privilege, and maybe that's the case in a big city with very adequate public transportation. But in the south, if you can't drive you're fugged. Obviously you don't deserve to drive if you're stupid behind the wheel. But no good job is going to hire you unless you have that "privilege." Might as well be on probation if you don't have that "privilege". I think "privilege" in terms of government really is a euphemism for "freedom we'll take away from your ass."

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I miss my friends not making complete fools out of themselves by trying to argue politics.

today i learned i'm not jase's friend.

:(

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I think that making sure your plane does not blow up so you can continue to have the freedom to travel freely throughout the country is not a bad thing. There are technicalities in implementation we can happily argue about all day though.

Surely you aren't defending the Patriot Act.

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That's pretty funny.

Listen we have less freedom because we are more constricted then we've ever been. So yeah it is hard to say I'm not free here or I'm not free there. I can fart when I want, and I can say what I want on this board within reason. But I identify my freedom with the ability to grow personally and professionally.

I would like the freedom to go sell bottles of water at the beach, and even though I technically am free to do so. There are so many walls you have to climb (i.e zoning, renting space, city approval), and there so much cost involved with being able to do it that I'm kind of not free to do it. It's called monetary control. If you don't think this country hasn't evolved into a hi tech monetary slave system then you're wrong, and equate that with freedom.

Fwiw, its always been that way. Local government have had the power to regulate business within their borders since colonial times. In some ways, they had more ability to shut them down. For example, 225 years ago very few businesses were allowed to operate on Sundays. The only thing that has really changed is how the businesses are regulated and that the towns themselves have grown.

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today i learned i'm not jase's friend.

:(

Today I learned he has friends
1 person likes this

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Honestly, my favorite part of the convention so far has been the trucks witt 20 ft billboards of aborted fetuses.

It's really going to help me shed these 5-7 vanity pounds I need to lose because I won't be able to eat for at least a week.

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I hope they are aborting fetuses that are 20 ft tall...fuging giants

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Fwiw, its always been that way. Local government have had the power to regulate business within their borders since colonial times. In some ways, they had more ability to shut them down. For example, 225 years ago very few businesses were allowed to operate on Sundays. The only thing that has really changed is how the businesses are regulated and that the towns themselves have grown.

How they're regulated is a big change....along with tort law, employment law, unemployment law, workmen's comp, social media guidelines. A lot has changed.

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the objectivity is underwhelming in this thread.

the market goes up today. yay it's the Dems. The right spreads fear blah blah. For God's sake what has happened to most of you? Do you not have the ability to take a step back and realize how much of a party hack you are?

The ease in which people will buy what their party tells them hook line and sinker is so friggin scary it's not funny.

Here is the takeway from this thread for me. No matter what fact or graph or chart the other guy puts, because you are so enamoured with your party instead of the country it does not mean jack.

I hear it on the radio. See it at work. The sheer stupidity of issues and info. So much that can be refuted or at least some context added and it falls on deaf ears.

I hope whoever wins is humble, wise enough to kick out the extreme talkers from their cabinet and go from the middle. I hope they listen to the people instead of their lobbyist. And don't forget BOTH sides have them. Both sides have their 1% er's too. I hope the next guy grasps just how bad the debt is.

I hope the next guy understands what Thomas Jefferson said. "The government that governs least, governs best." And for you knee jerk libs, no I'm not talking about NO regulation or NO saftey net programs so get that talking point ******* out your mouth.

Yeah I'm pissed. I'm pissed because we have accepted it is what it is and have left so much up to total insecure ego maniacs and that's suppose to be ok.

Ok I feel better now. Time for some cerveza's.

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Corporations and Small Business Owners Also Pay No Income Tax During Bad Years

Those lazy, good for nothing "Job Creators"! Wait what?

A GAO study found that in every year from 1998 to 2005, approximately 55 percent of large corporations paid no corporate income tax. ** But just 2.7 percent of large corporations reported no net tax liability in all eight of those eight years. This reflects a similar pattern as applies to families and individuals — those who do not pay income tax in a given year often do pay income tax over time.

This pattern also applies to small business owners and others who deduct business losses from their taxable incomes and thereby eliminate their income tax liability in some years.

* Tim Dowd and John B. Horowitz, “Income Mobility and the Earned Income Tax Credit: Short-Term Safety Net or Long-Term Income Support,” Public Finance Review (April 11 2011), pp 619-652; CBPP communications with authors.

** Large corporations are those with at least $250 million in assets or $50 million in gross receipts. Government Accountability Office, “Comparison of the Reported Tax Liabilities of Foreign- and U.S.-Controlled Corporations, 1998-2005,” July 2008, <a href="http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08957.pdf">http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08957.pdf

The US global economic policy and approach to taxation of its citizens has changed so radically since the 1950s as to render your chart at best misleading and at worst meaningless. High paying manufacturing jobs have been off shored and replaced with low paying service sector jobs, in many cases subsidized with federal programs such as the EITC. These recipients are mostly hard working individuals unable to earn a living wage in today's, low paying, service oriented society.

The overwhelming majority of Americans pay taxes

When all federal taxes are considered, it is clear that the overwhelming majority of Americans pay such taxes. CBO data show that the poorest fifth of households paid an average of 4 percent of their incomes in federal taxes despite their low incomes in 2007, while the next fifth paid an average of 10 percent of income in federal taxes.

The bottom fifth of taxpayers paid 12.3 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes

Low-income families also pay substantial state and local taxes. Most state and local

taxes are regressive, meaning that low-income families pay a larger share of their incomes in these taxes than wealthier households do. The bottom fifth of taxpayers paid 12.3 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes in 2011, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP). That was well above the 7.9 percent average rate that the top 1 percent of households paid (see Figure 3).

The bottom 20 percent of households pays an average of 16 to 17 percent of their incomes in taxes

Considering all taxes — federal, state, and local — the bottom 20 percent of households pays an average of 16 to 17 percent of their incomes in taxes. The next 20 percent of households pays about 21 percent of income in taxes, on average. [21]

Who Doesn't Pay Federal Income Taxes?

  • Approximately 61 percent are working people who pay payroll taxes. As noted above, even the low-income households in this group pay substantial federal income taxes over time. The main options to force these people to pay federal income tax in years when their incomes are low include cutting the EITC or the Child Tax Credit, which would tend to reduce work incentives and increase child poverty and welfare use, and lowering the standard deduction or personal exemption, which could tax many low-income working families into, or deeper into, poverty.

  • 5-26-11tax-f4.jpg

  • An additional 22 percent of people who did not pay federal income taxes in 2009 are people aged 65 or older who have modest incomes (and do not have earnings). The main option to make these individuals pay federal income tax would be to subject their Social Security benefits to taxation despite their limited income.[25]

  • The remaining 17 percent includes students, people with disabilities or illnesses, the long-term unemployed, and other people with very low taxable incomes. To make these people pay federal income taxes, policymakers would have to tax disability, veterans’, and similar benefits or make full-time students and the long-term jobless individuals borrow (or draw from any available savings) to pay taxes on their meager incomes.

  • Read the full article here.

http://www.cbpp.org/...fa=view&id=3505

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