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Adam Schein "speaks"...


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#51 rayzor

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:46 AM

i think this OL is at least as good as the one in '09.

i think we'll also be surprised at how well this Dline does. we may not have peppers, but i think the rotation we have on DE makes this position about as strong as it was and having the edwards wall will help. also i'm absolutely positive that our LB corps is improved from there and that they will play a bigger role in the pass rush than the previous one so i think as far as the front 7 is concerned we are at least even with that '09 group. the advantage that this defense has is in the management of it. it will be a lot more adaptive than the previous one.

i think our run game is better and more efficient. our passing game....wow, no comparison really. cam and this receiving corps is a lot better than that year and we also have, as i said with the defense, a much more adaptive coaching staff.

this team last year could have won several more than it did and the reason it lost them was a combination of injuries (and compensating for them), a lack of experience in the system, and just a tendency to make mistakes brought about by the youth of the players (incl. QB) that was made worse than it probably would have been b/c of the lack of offseason. i think mistakes will be significantly cut down this year and the players will be much more disciplined. you fix all of that and we win 3-4 more games than last year at least.

#52 CRA

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

i think this OL is at least as good as the one in '09.

i think we'll also be surprised at how well this Dline does. we may not have peppers, but i think the rotation we have on DE makes this position about as strong as it was and having the edwards wall will help. also i'm absolutely positive that our LB corps is improved from there and that they will play a bigger role in the pass rush than the previous one so i think as far as the front 7 is concerned we are at least even with that '09 group. the advantage that this defense has is in the management of it. it will be a lot more adaptive than the previous one.

i think our run game is better and more efficient. our passing game....wow, no comparison really. cam and this receiving corps is a lot better than that year and we also have, as i said with the defense, a much more adaptive coaching staff.

this team last year could have won several more than it did and the reason it lost them was a combination of injuries (and compensating for them), a lack of experience in the system, and just a tendency to make mistakes brought about by the youth of the players (incl. QB) that was made worse than it probably would have been b/c of the lack of offseason. i think mistakes will be significantly cut down this year and the players will be much more disciplined. you fix all of that and we win 3-4 more games than last year at least.


Well, like I said, I was responding to someone bringing up the 12-4 team....not the 2009 one. I'd give them the edge on DL over the 2009 one probably.

#53 Panther_mountain

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:51 AM

Well, like I said, I was responding to someone bringing up the 12-4 team....not the 2009 one. I'd give them the edge on DL over the 2009 one probably.


Who was on the line in 2008 and wasn't in 2009 making the line worse off in 2009?

#54 CRA

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:52 AM

google typo on my part....Here is 2008. Again, same, not better than now.....If you go back to our Superbowl run....yes they were a TON better...but not 2008.
2008 Carolina Panthers final roster

Offensive Linemen

Defensive Linemen
Reserve Lists


2008 DL had 30 sacks. 9 FFs. A Pep that played. A great rotational CJ.

2008 OL is what keeps it from being a debate IMO. That OL makes the 2008 lines > 2012 lines.

Also, your list leaves off a great one year FA move. Keydrick Vincent. Running behind him and a healthy Otah was as good as it got in the NFL that year. Right side of that OL was a beast....the rest was Kalil, Gross, an a dang good version of Wharton.

#55 Panther_mountain

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:55 AM

2008 DL had 30 sacks. 9 FFs. A Pep that played. A great rotational CJ.

2008 OL is what keeps it from being a debate IMO. That OL makes the 2008 lines > 2012 lines.


Im not comparing performances and whether or not Pep decided to play. Im comparing rosters. The 2008 line is almost identical to the 2009 line. No significant changes. People taking plays off, whoever they may be, is another story.

#56 rayzor

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:58 AM

Well, like I said, I was responding to someone bringing up the 12-4 team....not the 2009 one. I'd give them the edge on DL over the 2009 one probably.

i don't know...i think for the most part there wasn't a whole lot of difference between the 12-4 team and the '09 team, was there? jake got hurt/fell apart and teams figured out foxball and foxy didn't change. i think that was the main difference there.

#57 CRA

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:59 AM

Im not comparing performances and whether or not Pep decided to play. Im comparing rosters. The 2008 line is almost identical to the 2009 line. No significant changes. People taking plays off, whoever they may be, is another story.


Players aren't the same each year, situations change, age, etc.

Piggy for example isn't the same guy today he was then. Otah wasn't on the field in 09 vs 08. Pep was still playing vs being tagged on a team he wanted off of. Vincent wasnt the same. Etc.



#58 Panther_mountain

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:07 AM

Players aren't the same each year, situations change, age, etc.

Piggy for example isn't the same guy today he was then. Otah wasn't on the field in 09 vs 08. Pep was still playing vs being tagged on a team he wanted off of. Vincent wasnt the same. Etc.


I am not going to get into a debate of the mental state of players between 2008 and 2009. They are paid millions to play, not feel sad. Rosters were identical.

#59 CRA

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:10 AM

i don't know...i think for the most part there wasn't a whole lot of difference between the 12-4 team and the '09 team, was there? jake got hurt/fell apart and teams figured out foxball and foxy didn't change. i think that was the main difference there.


I don't know....maybe it was the Jake/Foz effect. But they werent dominate up front like they were. I don't think Keydrick and Otah were the same players but who knows. We also lost Gross and shuffled.

#60 CRA

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:20 AM

I am not going to get into a debate of the mental state of players between 2008 and 2009. They are paid millions to play, not feel sad. Rosters were identical.


You are too focused on looking at a list of names.

What and who was on the field wasn't identical. for example, how many games was Wharton playing LT in 2009? Who was playing LG replacing Wharton? How is that comparable to Gross at LT and Wharton at LG? How is Keydrick using up the last bit of gas in 2008 comparable to a Key on empty in 2009?


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