Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Williams flat out doesn't fit


  • Please log in to reply
203 replies to this topic

#31 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,512 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:39 AM

The whole Williams doesn't fit our offense argument is stupid at best. The point that Chud made when he came here was that he was going to fit the offense to what the player's skill sets are on the team. He did that with Newton putting him in the pistol, he did that with Stewart running him between the tackles and did that with Williams running on the edges. We did have a good running game last year and Chud made the pieces fit but it took time. If there is an argument to be made it is that we didn't much to highlight what Williams does best yesterday. Which could be said about the offense as a whole.

Yesterday we played against a defense we were not prepared to play against. We didn't have a good gameplan and executed pretty poorly. It wouldn't have mattered if Stewart was in there or not. The problem was not one player but an offense that just wasn't prepared for what we saw. Chalk one up for the Tampa defense. I doubt we make the same mistake when they come to BOA later in the year.

But to assume that the Williams doesn't fit the offense because of what happened yesterday is simply making the information fit what you already believe to be the case, not looking at the evidence and objectively deciding what it means. Otherwise you could argue that Newton doesn't fit what we do on offense based on what happened yesterday and you would be just as wrong.

#32 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 24,237 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:39 AM

I know. I actually agree with you on this. The exchange between the two sometimes looks like they are no where close to being on the same page.

Well Williams has never run it before.....nor does it play to how he runs.

Stewart is built for it, plays to his strength as a runner, and had a college career doing it....which is why he took all the read option dives last year

#33 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,512 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:46 AM

You say it doesn't work...

Yet Carolina was the best rushing team in the NFL last year.

Dever went to the postseason with it....and didn't even have the added mix of passing.

RGIII just had the greatest rookie debut arguable in NFL history with it. Against a team that saw it twice last year.

It only works if you have the pieces to run it.....we ran Sunday without a key cog.


Tolbert was the inside runner but we didn't use him. That wasn't Williams or Stewart's fault but Chud's. He didn't call a good game and we sucked. It happens in the NFL. Making more than that about it, is making it something it isn't. If Chud is making the scheme fit our players which is what he said he was doing, then saying that a player didn't fit our scheme is an indictment of the OC not the player. Chud needs to improvise to fit what we have every week not have one style that he makes everyone run. If you need a toolbox to win and you lose your hammer, you have to use other tools differently not hammer away with a screwdriver because you don't have a hammer.

#34 Frizzy350

Frizzy350

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,117 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:50 AM

We should have been using a lot more strong/weak/i form formations for everything. We can run a legitimate pro offense, no need to be afraid to show that side as well.

I like our college stuff, but it should be used complimentary, not as the primary facet of this offense.

#35 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,512 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:50 AM

Well Williams has never run it before.....nor does it play to how he runs.

Stewart is built for it, plays to his strength as a runner, and had a college career doing it....which is why he took all the read option dives last year

Saying something that isn't true over and over doesn't make it true. He did not take all the dive options. He just didn't. And because I don't have a youtube video of Williams running it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. And Williams did run the read option at Memphis in 2005. After the first 2 quarterbacks broke legs, West converted Maurice Avery to quarterback and ran a version of the wildcat in 2005. It included a bunch of option plays including the dive play option. So once again you are talking out of your butt. Prove that Stewart took every one and we didn't ever run against it anyone else with Williams or that Williams didn't run it in 2005. Until you can, you are making it up and should be ignored.

#36 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 24,237 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:51 AM

The whole Williams doesn't fit our offense argument is stupid at best. The point that Chud made when he came here was that he was going to fit the offense to what the player's skill sets are on the team. He did that with Newton putting him in the pistol, he did that with Stewart running him between the tackles and did that with Williams running on the edges. We did have a good running game last year and Chud made the pieces fit but it took time. If there is an argument to be made it is that we didn't much to highlight what Williams does best yesterday. Which could be said about the offense as a whole.

Yesterday we played against a defense we were not prepared to play against. We didn't have a good gameplan and executed pretty poorly. It wouldn't have mattered if Stewart was in there or not. The problem was not one player but an offense that just wasn't prepared for what we saw. Chalk one up for the Tampa defense. I doubt we make the same mistake when they come to BOA later in the year.

But to assume that the Williams doesn't fit the offense because of what happened yesterday is simply making the information fit what you already believe to be the case, not looking at the evidence and objectively deciding what it means. Otherwise you could argue that Newton doesn't fit what we do on offense based on what happened yesterday and you would be just as wrong.

It an argument based on fact....fact of what this offense has done on a football field. As you know, I have argued this since last year. You saw Sunday the ONLY looks of Williams doing the zone read under Chud. Sunday supports what I have been saying.....largely to you. So claiming this is a new argument based on Sunday has no merit.

And in my initial post, I clearly stated Chud didn't run plays to suit Williams and should have.

fact is Chud runs a scheme that plays against what Williams does well. Williams can find success here but he needs Stewart and Cam to get the car jump started based on what CHUD is doing.

Chud is what he is....I wish he ran the ball and played to all guys more effectively. But he isn't....it is the Cam show with this guy ( and I don't agree with it to the extent he makes it). But running the Cam show....means Williams doesn't fit the core do what we do....makes him a complimentary piece.

And your Cam Newton could also then be argued not to fit then analogy doesn't work. Newton is a record setter in it.



#37 SauceBoss

SauceBoss

    IT IS WHAT IT IS

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,213 posts
  • LocationGreenville, SC

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:52 AM

Chud needs to shut up and run a screen pass every once in a while. I still can't get over the porous calling of "all receivers run downfield and Olsen stay short" offense yesterday.

#38 Peppers90 NC

Peppers90 NC

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,112 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:52 AM

You say it doesn't work...

Yet Carolina was the best rushing team in the NFL last year.

Dever went to the postseason with it....and didn't even have the added mix of passing.

RGIII just had the greatest rookie debut arguable in NFL history with it. Against a team that saw it twice last year.

It only works if you have the pieces to run it.....we ran Sunday without a key cog.

I wasn't trying to suggest that it doesnt work totally, because we proved it can. I was just implying that we may not be able to totally rely on it to be our sole run game. I was also suggesting that this year it may not work as well, but hopefully I am wrong. TB didn't have a single issue yesterday getting thru our ole' oline yesterday, and no run game would work in that case.

#39 Ruff

Ruff

    Formerly Know As RufftownRepresent

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,307 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:54 AM

As said previously in this post, I don't understand why sometimes we can't just line-up with two TEs (one being a very good block in Hartsock), with Tolbert and Williams in the I, or hell, even weak or strong off-set I, and run power football.

#40 Ruff

Ruff

    Formerly Know As RufftownRepresent

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,307 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:55 AM

To go with my post above, I'm not saying abandon the spread/shotgun offense entirely. But sometimes, in 2nd or 3rd and <5s, run the football down the other team's throat sometimes.

#41 Peppers90 NC

Peppers90 NC

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,112 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:55 AM

and I don't think at all Chud runs a system that Williams can't be productive in. Certainly would not have been the case in SD.

#42 Peppers90 NC

Peppers90 NC

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,112 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:56 AM

As said previously in this post, I don't understand why sometimes we can't just line-up with two TEs (one being a very good block in Hartsock), with Tolbert and Williams in the I, or hell, even weak or strong off-set I, and run power football.

I think we will get back to that, we have to in order to have a decent running attack. Spread reads just aren't as successful long term in the NFL.

#43 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 24,237 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:57 AM

Saying something that isn't true over and over doesn't make it true. He did not take all the dive options. He just didn't. And because I don't have a youtube video of Williams running it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Prove that Stewart took every one and we didn't ever run against it anyone else with Williams. Until you can, you are making it up and should be ignored.


You constantly claiming DeAngelo took read option dives last year doesn't make it true. I have asked you to name one game, one play of him actually taking a read option......and you never have shown a single play of it.

You showing ONE play of it in 2011 isnt much of a request I am making.....and I can prove Stewart took them all. Go back and pick any game....

last time you searched and searched and only came up with him taking option pitches....and tried to claim those were him taking zone reads. Claiming Cam read a D and pitched it outside. The zone read is what Williams did twice for negative yards on Sunday....making his Chud debut in Stewarts role.

#44 Khaki Lackey

Khaki Lackey

    I keeps it real

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,160 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:59 AM

You say it doesn't work...

Yet Carolina was the best rushing team in the NFL last year.

Dever went to the postseason with it....and didn't even have the added mix of passing.

RGIII just had the greatest rookie debut arguable in NFL history with it. Against a team that saw it twice last year.

It only works if you have the pieces to run it.....we ran Sunday without a key cog.

If that's truly the case, then shouldn't we have practiced a few pro offensive plays to fall back on just in case the key cog to the Mickey Mouse offense is injured?
This brilliant offense that got us 6 wins last year and managed to win Denver 8?
I don't know about you, but I was kind of jealous watching Denver run a pro offense last night.
To be honest, I was jealous watching, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, and San Fran also.
Do we really not have the personel to run a big boy offense or does Cam really still need the training wheels? He seems to throw a good ball, to me.
There has to be some middle ground between Foxball and this corny three ring circus we're seeing now.

#45 Ruff

Ruff

    Formerly Know As RufftownRepresent

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,307 posts

Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

CRA is absolutely right in this situation.

DWill isn't the best fit for a zone-read, spread offense. Does that make him a bad back? Absolutely not. Does that mean Chud needs to adapt to his players some more? Yes, it does. Put in some plays that are designed around DWill, that help his strengths shine.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com - IP Content Design by Joshua Tree / TitansReport.