352 replies to this topic

[mmmbeans]

I'm not exactly sure. This could be the coup de grace of PNAC, or a manufactured start to WWW3. I'm not exactly sure, but this is only going to get worse. This isn't going to just go away into obscurity. We are going to be forced to act, and whether that was all part of the plan is debatable. I don't know exactly where this is heading, but no course looks very good.

i don't know that we can act... nothing good can come from us doing anything but defending our people/pulling them out while killing as few people as possible...i think we're seeing a tipping point in the middle east... whether or not these fledgling governments bow to this kind of insanity or represent the quiet majorities...

might be seeing the beginnings of a tipping point for "cultural" islam.


(i think the concept of PNAC as policy died with bush and Iraq.)

[Darth Biscuit]

So the heck with it. Our leaders are both going stupid but I kinda wanna try something here. Short of going to war (which would be a bad idea to end bad ideas mixed in with a little clusterduck) how would you respond? Me and a friend we looking at it last night and we both came to the conclusion that this stuff is going to keep going until they see how we respond. a few options came up with no involving a war would be.

1 Issue shoot to kill orders to for anyone crossing the walls into a US embassy. (Not my first choice as the host government would get pissed) But it would stop the whole storming the embassy thing.

2 Strip military aid. We have the best toys when it comes to aircraft and armor on the market. Egpt is scared Shirtless of Isreal/ tell em they get no new weapons for each year the walls are breached and see how many nights it happens.

3 Remove ALL funding - we give Eygpt a little over 1 billion in cash each year. If we take that off the books they will lose the ability to fund large portons of their government. Only Issue is that you take take much money away and people start doing nutty things. Plus then what do we have to bargin with?


Let me know what you guys come up with. Could be more intresting than the white house race that everybody is already tired of.

We're kind of in a damned-if-u-do, damned-if-u-don't deal here... sure we can protect our embassies more... and I'm sure they're in the process of doing that now...

Stop military aid... maybe, but I guess it's preferable to be on good terms with these governments, even if their populace is slightly crazy. Same thing with the aid $... I don't like giving that money away esp to these countries like Egypt and Pakistan, where you pretty much know it's not being used for it's intended purpose, but rather lining the pockets of politicians, military guys and often times being used directly back against us with terrorist groups... but again, what other incentive do these people have to deal with us at all? They hate us, they'd rather kill us, but we pretty much have to communicate with them... bombing the poo out of them, as good as that may make people feel, would just kill a bunch of innocents and not really do anything but make them hate us more.

As much as I would like to say... let's do this and this... I don't really know what the best course of action is at this point other than protect our people, and try to calm the situation down.

[mmmbeans]

we keep the military in power in pakistan and egypt... that's why we give them military aid.

[nobody]

we keep the military in power in pakistan and egypt... that's why we give them military aid.

yeah but it can out the eygpt new this crap was going to happen days ago............ so if they knew this mess would happen then WTF. I think everyone knows the status quo wont work out here. I really just wanna get our own oil tell the hippies to shut it and leave this whole freaking part of the world to the isrealis. Love to see the oil lillionairs lose everything.

[mmmbeans]

egypt and pakistan are also about retaining a balance of power in the region... these people have no love for us and they have no reason to so to expect loyalty from them outside (and even inside) of our "arrangements" is a bit over the top... We go behind their backs, they go behind ours. I'm not saying I like it and egypt is shifting and it's going to be interesting to see what happens...


Unfortunately, pakistan has nukes and is one of the craziest f*cking countries in the world so... that situation can really only get worse.


As far as oil goes, my understanding is that we can't really get our own oil unless we nationalize the industry which everyone would have a poo-fit over. Oil is fungible... there really isn't any way to only use american oil without dramatically changing the infrastructure (and even then i'm not sure it's possible.)


I'm sure someone smarter than me can expand on this further.

[g5jamz]

Relax Joe...no one's asking you to do anything

http://nation.foxnew...-foreign-policy

[CatofWar]

Haven't turned on any of the state run media outlets since this morning. Are they still forcing it down our throats this afternoon? They were all day yesterday and this am as well.

[nobody]

yeah they are and it keeps getting worse and worse. Some new things out that include: 1 Eygpts Top state department officail refused to let US MArines on US soil (the embassy) carry live rounds. Thats right folks our jarheads were not incompetent (which would have blown my mind if true) instead the state department told them to point their guns at the protesters and say bang bang bang.

2 In lybia the bodies were missing for 12 hours and they dint die quick. Reports state they were freaking SODOMIZED.

3 The state department issed an all clear stand down threat level 5 days before citing "no threat" on 9/11
(So Eygpt new the protest were going to happen 5 days before but we didnt?)

4 When they were missing in Lybia Obama went to bed.

5 Apparently our pres hasnt been attending the intel breifings for the past week.


4&5 havent been confirmed by 2 scources yet so I pray that is not true. Wait 24 -48 on those and we should get more info on em. So there I just saved you from having to watch the media tonight. Do i get paid for this?+

[Floppin]

Care to provide links to any of that?

[Darth Biscuit]

yeah they are and it keeps getting worse and worse. Some new things out that include: 1 Eygpts Top state department officail refused to let US MArines on US soil (the embassy) carry live rounds. Thats right folks our jarheads were not incompetent (which would have blown my mind if true) instead the state department told them to point their guns at the protesters and say bang bang bang.

2 In lybia the bodies were missing for 12 hours and they dint die quick. Reports state they were freaking SODOMIZED.

3 The state department issed an all clear stand down threat level 5 days before citing "no threat" on 9/11
(So Eygpt new the protest were going to happen 5 days before but we didnt?)

4 When they were missing in Lybia Obama went to bed.

5 Apparently our pres hasnt been attending the intel breifings for the past week.


4&5 havent been confirmed by 2 scources yet so I pray that is not true. Wait 24 -48 on those and we should get more info on em. So there I just saved you from having to watch the media tonight. Do i get paid for this?+

It was our Ambassador to Egypt that would not allow the Marines to have live ammo.

idk about that sodomy report, I hope that's not true.

Also idk about the SD issuing an all clear... if true, I don't see how that makes any sense... security should automatically be higher on 9/11.

Meh... could be any # of reasons for this... if there wasn't anything going on, I can see him going to bed with orders to be awakened if something came up.

Not attending briefings could be a problem... depends on the reason. I would think that's pretty much one of the president's main jobs, to stay apprised of what's going on around the world and be ready to act and make decisions.


Of course a lot of that could be pure speculation, and like you said, unless there is complete confirmation, hard to say what's true...

[Darth Biscuit]

Care to provide links to any of that?

Here's links about the ammo thing... no idea how legit these sites are, never heard of them... they do appear right leaning.

http://freebeacon.co...tted-live-ammo/

http://www.kforcegov...h_12000175.aspx

She did not permit US Marine guards to carry live ammunition, according to USMC blogs. Thus she neutralized any US military capability that was dedicated to preserve her life and protect the US Embassy.

[nobody]

As far as oil goes, my understanding is that we can't really get our own oil unless we nationalize the industry which everyone would have a poo-fit over. Oil is fungible... there really isn't any way to only use american oil without dramatically changing the infrastructure (and even then i'm not sure it's possible.)


I'm sure someone smarter than me can expand on this further.

eeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Kinda last i saw was that it was that we would have to redo all the transport routes to our existing reefineries and do a rework of the transport routes to get the amounts out but if you combined that with the keystone pipeline you could get the oil indepence (not sustanability) in 8 years. To get out of the me you would have to do keystone anwar and a massive investment in South America. Oh and build about 10 more refineries. You would also have to deal with green peace and their legal guys fighting every inch of the way.


So yeah allost impossable.

[Proudiddy]

I'm not exactly sure. This could be the coup de grace of PNAC, or a manufactured start to WWW3. I'm not exactly sure, but this is only going to get worse. This isn't going to just go away into obscurity. We are going to be forced to act, and whether that was all part of the plan is debatable. I don't know exactly where this is heading, but no course looks very good.

This is what I've been getting at across all of the threads - from the China/oil deal, to these "protests," the major powers either dividing or consolidating power... It's not looking good.

[Floppin]

Here's links about the ammo thing... no idea how legit these sites are, never heard of them... they do appear right leaning.

http://freebeacon.co...tted-live-ammo/

http://www.kforcegov...h_12000175.aspx

Yeah, I had read that. It was the only one of the things that he listed that I had read. Still, links would be nice.

[nobody]

Here's links about the ammo thing... no idea how legit these sites are, never heard of them... they do appear right leaning.

http://freebeacon.co...tted-live-ammo/

http://www.kforcegov...h_12000175.aspx

free beacon is respectable k force is iffy
as far as the others yes i will as soon as i can (at work so whenever i get a sec)