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Fiz

Fundament Question: When is an embryo afflicted with original sin?

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whats funny is that some of the christian books i read actually quote Einstein to support there christian beliefs. lol they of course took them totally out of context and if you don't know any better you just read it and take it as truth.

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I've told this story before, but it had such a profound effect on me I'll share it again.

I'll never forget my pre-pubescent family trip to the Smithsonian in DC.

We were in the room with all the different animal skeletons lined up behind glass cases.

I sat there with mouth agape for what had to be half an hour.

It was so clear.

The similarities. The differences. The specialization of limbs. Skull size.

I didn't get it ALL, but the seed had been planted. This wasn't Genesis. Adam and Eve. This was a natural process of selection. "All God's creatures", how different they look, really aren't that different. Conservation of basic form. It was right there before my eyes. He didn't make them one at a time, to inhabit His chosen environments. The environment dictated what would work and what wouldn't based on a platform that was successful.

It didn't flower for awhile. The conditioning set in motion by my family faith was strong enough to keep my clinging to Christianity. It was even strong enough to have me very involved in IVCF in college. Even a small group leader! Clearly I was overcompensating.

But somewhere along the line I could no longer fight what I knew to be true. Rationality overtook childlike acceptance.

My mom is still upset about it.

Don't even ask how she feels about my "unbaptized children".

lol

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I've told this story before, but it had such a profound effect on me I'll share it again.

I'll never forget my pre-pubescent family trip to the Smithsonian in DC.

We were in the room with all the different animal skeletons lined up behind glass cases.

I sat there with mouth agape for what had to be half an hour.

It was so clear.

The similarities. The differences. The specialization of limbs. Skull size.

I didn't get it ALL, but the seed had been planted. This wasn't Genesis. Adam and Eve. This was a natural process of selection. "All God's creatures", how different they look, really aren't that different. Conservation of basic form. It was right there before my eyes. He didn't make them one at a time, to inhabit His chosen environments. The environment dictated what would work and what wouldn't based on a platform that was successful.

It didn't flower for awhile. The conditioning set in motion by my family faith was strong enough to keep my clinging to Christianity. It was even strong enough to have me very involved in IVCF in college. Even a small group leader! Clearly I was overcompensating.

But somewhere along the line I could no longer fight what I knew to be true. Rationality overtook childlike acceptance.

My mom is still upset about it.

Don't even ask how she feels about my "unbaptized children".

lol

great story. I can relate.

but my parents don't know...i'm too scared to tell them :(

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the doctrine of total depravity would suggest quite differently.

also i have yet to hear a proper argument for the ambiguous "age of accountability."

Just show me some passages about being born into original sin.

Are you saying if a child is born and doesn't have time to get baptized its doomed?

Come on man.

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what about those people in south America that live in the jungle and have 0 interaction with civilization are they doomed?

since you guys are talking about that stuff

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what about those people in south America that live in the jungle and have 0 interaction with civilization are they doomed?

since you guys are talking about that stuff

This question is raised quite often.

It's much more rare nowadays, but it does exist, that someone is so remote that they don't get to hear about God or the bible etc.

Having said that, God isn't going to create someone then give them ZERO chance to change and that be it.

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Just write a message in the sky.

"I'm God. I'm all powerful. You can do what you want because I love you but I'll hold you accountable so play nice. Love, God."

The end.

you still wouldn't listen

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Just show me some passages about being born into original sin.

Are you saying if a child is born and doesn't have time to get baptized its doomed?

Come on man.

Romans 3:23: For all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God.

I see no infantile clauses there.

(and the truth is, i don't know either way - i'm simply exploring the other end of the issue here. i don't see anything specific about it either way.)

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This question is raised quite often.

It's much more rare nowadays, but it does exist, that someone is so remote that they don't get to hear about God or the bible etc.

Having said that, God isn't going to create someone then give them ZERO chance to change and that be it.

That's not really an answer.

Face it, if you are born in some remote mountain region in Tibet in 1800, you will never hear about all this Jesus stuff, and you are going to hell. This would prove pretty easily that God, if He exists, is not at all like the one so many people in the US are into, so lets just ignore that stuff.

I had a girlfriend a few years ago that I asked this very same question and her head about exploded, like she never bothered to stop and think about this simple question. It's like because she lived in Southern Baptist country and heard about it everyday, it was assumed that everyone on the planet had to go through the same thing.

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you still wouldn't listen

I would. i'm fine with things not adding up 100%. most of the Christians I know don't know poo about Christianity and how it adds up they are just Christians because of there experiences, (though i can't get out of them what exactly those experiences were like) had i had any of supernatural or personal experiences with Jesus or God while I was a christian then I would probably still be a christian today.

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I would. i'm fine with things not adding up 100%. most of the Christians I know don't know poo about Christianity and how it adds up they are just Christians because of there experiences, (though i can't get out of them what exactly those experiences were like) had i had any of supernatural or personal experiences with Jesus or God while I was a christian then I would probably still be a christian today.

so you dial your level of skepticism so high that nothing can breach it except for a miracle.

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so you dial your level of skepticism so high that nothing can breach it except for a miracle.

a miracle? depends on what you call a miracle. peoples standards of miracle are quite different.

apparently all my christian friends and family have had this supernatural experience so they must not be so rare...unless they are just all mistaken in what they really are.

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