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What is the wisdom in building a defense around LBers?


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#16 xclr82xtc

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:33 PM

i dont understand how we keep getting run on, when our defense practices against 2 of the best RB's in the league. but maybe that lack of competition at practice is why 34 aint where he used to be..


anyways, regarding your post. it all starts with the foundation. having 3 first rd lb's is nice, but you gotta have a wall in front. the line is where it starts and both of ours need to be addressed. a good pass rushing line will compensate greatly for meager corners

#17 Marguide

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:52 PM

I think they would have preferred Mark Baron, but he was gone. It is also probable they would have gone DE at 9 if they believed in Coples or someone else, but apparently they didn't.

Indications are they wanted to go D in the 1st, and that is appropriate given the mismatch in talent levels between the offense and defense. My guess is they just didn't see anyone else they liked that was there at 9.

#18 panther4life

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:04 PM

Well if you go by some huddlers agruments. Hurney is a coaches GM and gets the coaches whoever they want. If you look at that reasonably, I think that is a bunch of bs. I don't have a clue who Rivera wanted.


I am one of those who believe he is a coaches gm and would like to hear why you think he acts indepently of what his coaches want(except 2010 when Fox was on his way out).

I'll cite
Naane
Applewhite
Tutu
Tolbert
Olsen
Shockey
Derek Anderson
Brockel
Edwards
Edwards
Louis Murphy
and the entire 2 draft classes have been what fit Riveras preferences. The same could be said under Fox with many examples.

Also these are that were on the roster pre-rivera
23 of the 67 total players on roster including I.R, suspension and practice squad
Smith
Gross
Gamble
Davis
Deangelo
Anderson
Beason
Kalil
Charles Johnson
Stewart
Godfrey
Barnidge
Martin
Munnerlyn
G. Williams
Senn
Jansen
Clausen
Lafell
Armanti
Hardy
Gettis
Neblett

and to play fair, here was my cheat sheet for that https://docs.google....d=1&output=html

#19 Kuech the Sneak

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:07 PM

You build a great defense through the front seven

#20 FirstRoundPick

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:20 AM

I am one of those who believe he is a coaches gm and would like to hear why you think he acts indepently of what his coaches want(except 2010 when Fox was on his way out).

I'll cite
Naane
Applewhite
Tutu
Tolbert
Olsen
Shockey
Derek Anderson
Brockel
Edwards
Edwards
Louis Murphy
and the entire 2 draft classes have been what fit Riveras preferences. The same could be said under Fox with many examples.

Also these are that were on the roster pre-rivera
23 of the 67 total players on roster including I.R, suspension and practice squad
Smith
Gross
Gamble
Davis
Deangelo
Anderson
Beason
Kalil
Charles Johnson
Stewart
Godfrey
Barnidge
Martin
Munnerlyn
G. Williams
Senn
Jansen
Clausen
Lafell
Armanti
Hardy
Gettis
Neblett

and to play fair, here was my cheat sheet for that https://docs.google....d=1&output=html


For someone as slow as me, how does this indisputable evidence prove anything?

Here is Green Bays
http://www.packers.c...m/howbuilt.html

Couldn't find one for the Giants, but I counted 13 guys from there first Superbowl roster while in comparison we have 9 from our roster in the same year.

#21 unicar15

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:36 AM

There are a lot of good things about having great LBs but that is only if they create pressure. Ours don't...and neither does our DL, so our D is a joke because of it.

Its exactly the reason you draft a guy like Coples (which is what some, including me, said we should do) and go from there in the draft. Keuchly is a great player but who cares if you have a guy who makes every tackle when the tackles he is making are 5 yards past the line of scrimmage every time?

#22 Snake

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:54 AM

There was a reason we drafted Alexander and Norman along with Keek. No matter how well you execute if your scheme is vanilla its not going to work.

#23 panther4life

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:10 AM

For someone as slow as me, how does this indisputable evidence prove anything?

Here is Green Bays
http://www.packers.c...m/howbuilt.html

Couldn't find one for the Giants, but I counted 13 guys from there first Superbowl roster while in comparison we have 9 from our roster in the same year.

why do you think the phrase carolina chargers has been mentioned so many times on here? Hurney obviously signed players Rivera had a comfort level with for Rivera.

There is no evidence to suggest Hurney has made any moves without Rivera's consent since he got here.

Only Gross and Gamble are high paid players that got their current contracts before Rivera was hired. Rivera would be nuts to not want them as comparable replacements would cost even more.

Barnidge
Martin
Munnerlyn
G. Williams
Senn-resigned this offseason under Rivera
Jansen
Clausen
Lafell
Armanti
Hardy
Gettis
Neblett-

are the others who were here pre rivera. None of them have big contracts and could be cut with little damage to the cap if Rivera see's fit.


Every LB we have got paid after Rivera arrived. Every Running back we have got paid after Rivera arrived. Aside from Hardy every d-lineman on the team came after Rivera was hired. Godfrey got paid after Rivera was hired.

Aside from Kalil and Gross(our 2 best) all starting offensive lineman came after Rivera was hired. The only reserve here before Rivera is Gary Williams.

Can you provide any evidence that Rivera did not want any of these players and putting your Hurney hatred aside...do you think any GM would go out and sign these players behind the back of their head coach without making sure the coach wanted them first??


heres a better link so you can see how each current team was built. http://www.profootba...sembled-charts/

#24 FirstRoundPick

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:09 AM

Ok, let me rephrase my problem with "coaches GM' phrase. I believe there is plenty of teamwork involved, between coach and GM. What I don't like to believe is that the GM does not get any accountability because he is a "coaches GM". Ahh Hurneys gets a free pass on his first 8 years don't count because he got whoever Fox wanted, he will be awesome now because he gets whoever Rivera wants.

#25 panther4life

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:18 AM

Ok, let me rephrase my problem with "coaches GM' phrase. I believe there is plenty of teamwork involved, between coach and GM. What I don't like to believe is that the GM does not get any accountability because he is a "coaches GM". Ahh Hurneys gets a free pass on his first 8 years don't count because he got whoever Fox wanted, he will be awesome now because he gets whoever Rivera wants.

well in that case then i'm with you. If we don't fix this poo they both need to go. Hurney hired Rivera and they have structured this team together, their success or failure moving forward needs to be tied together.

#26 Kurb

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:26 AM

Not being able to lock-up Pep or at LEAST get something other than a lousy compensatory 3rd pick KILLED us. No other GM wouldn't have let that player type of player leave without a fight.




Happens. peppers made it basically impossible to get anything for him with his antics. Be mad at his temper tantrum when he left.


Drafting to save jobs Fox/Hurney in 2009/2010 hurts tons more than pep leaving.