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Media Over Looking the Real Issue with Cam


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#1 ItsPantone278

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:06 PM

And its really not even an issue...

I said week 1, when it became apparent Chud is trying to make the read option a threat on nearly every other play call, that Cam has got to do a better job presnap at the line of scrimmage. He showed glimpses of this very early week 1, and ever since he seems to be that much slower on the reads. He is just holding the ball way to long. If he can get the read presnap he gains the advantage. Until he is able to point out the rusher(s)(he should have had a nice lesson in this last night watching Brady in a losing effort) this offense, by design we yield a significant number of negative plays.

This is a far more complicated offense for Cam to run than what he was running last year, which surprises me that people find it "dumbed down" from the Coryell looks we saw last year. Chud looks to have cooked up a whole new offense, and these initial looks are promising if Cam can make the read(and be willing to give the ball up).

The distraction right now is Cam's sideline demeanor and leadership abilities. Two things I am by and far less concerned with than his ability to make a read and execute the right option. When he starts to show that he can make right reads and make the right adjustments, he will gain a command of this offense that has been tailored to his skill sets beautifully.


My biggest concern with this particular offense is it seems to eliminate the cut back run. An aspect in the running game in which D. Will has been prolific. He has had some very nice carries this season out of the option look, but his ability to cut back has been pretty much negated by the new look. Cam keeping the ball is essentially the cut back.

#2 4Corners

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:08 PM

I wish I could habitually underperform for 5 years and still be employed

Eat sh*t, Marty.

#3 megadeth078

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:20 PM

Chud is not tailoring this offense to fit the talent that he has on the roster. This offense seems to be made specifically for Stewart as the running back and we're poo out luck when he's not active. This new offense may not be "dumbed down" from the offense we ran last season, but it sure does suck a whole lot more. If the problem is that Cam isn't doing his job with the pre-snap reads, I don't see why we would put such a huge focus and responsibility on post-snap reads as well. If Cam can nail those pre-snap reads and make adjustments, I don't see why we couldn't just run a traditional offense. Cam is ready to play a pro-style offense, but not the complicated poo that Chud is drawing up.

Chud thinks he needs to call up all sorts of crazy bullshit to make defenses respect us, but defenses are already scared of Smith, Cam's arm and accuracy, and our running backs. Chud needs to stop the tricks and he needs to let Cam play big boy football again. Not only is Chud asking too much from Cam, but he's also training him to learn a gimmicky, college football offense that has no business being consistent in this league. Chud is shitting the bed, and I have no problem blaming him for everything. He's doing a hell of a job preparing this team for a college football game, but not for the NFL. He should be ashamed. The real issue with Cam is Chud.

#4 La Pantera

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:24 PM

I love Dlo, but he can't be the primary back in this system and Tolbert is a complimentary part to the option. Without Jstew the option and zone reads aren't anywere close to, as affective.

#5 ItsPantone278

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 03:22 PM

Cam has a great ability to see the field when he is carrying the ball. Chud is hoping this ability can translate with an early "read" of the defense after the snap. The key is though, if Cam knows what to expect there is a near limitless number of options after the initial "read" of the defense. Cam has to make a read pre snap just to make sure the play doesn't go negative. This has nothing to do with the line calling a protection. It has everything to do with Cam identifying the moving parts of the defense. Once he can diagnose the play he can counter with either a long carry himself, a hand off to one of our RBs, or pull the fake for a Play Action pass. If he isn't getting the read though none of this matters as the play will likely result in a loss of yards.

Cam has to continue to grow in this offense because if can be perfect for him. As you saw with the saints*** it can build with rhythm. Whether he has a towel on his head or not it doesn't matter, the way Cam has to lead this team is by making the right read at the LOS then executing that read after the actual "read" when the ball is snapped.

#6 ItsPantone278

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 03:27 PM

Chud is not tailoring this offense to fit the talent that he has on the roster. This offense seems to be made specifically for Stewart as the running back and we're poo out luck when he's not active. This new offense may not be "dumbed down" from the offense we ran last season, but it sure does suck a whole lot more. If the problem is that Cam isn't doing his job with the pre-snap reads, I don't see why we would put such a huge focus and responsibility on post-snap reads as well. If Cam can nail those pre-snap reads and make adjustments, I don't see why we couldn't just run a traditional offense. Cam is ready to play a pro-style offense, but not the complicated poo that Chud is drawing up.

Chud thinks he needs to call up all sorts of crazy bullshit to make defenses respect us, but defenses are already scared of Smith, Cam's arm and accuracy, and our running backs. Chud needs to stop the tricks and he needs to let Cam play big boy football again. Not only is Chud asking too much from Cam, but he's also training him to learn a gimmicky, college football offense that has no business being consistent in this league. Chud is shitting the bed, and I have no problem blaming him for everything. He's doing a hell of a job preparing this team for a college football game, but not for the NFL. He should be ashamed. The real issue with Cam is Chud.



I don't think its about whether Cam is "ready for a pro style offense" so much as this concept of "pro style offense" is ever changing. Manning and Brady proved you can bring a spread offense to the league and be successful, Chan Gailey runs a spread in Buffalo and they've had some great offensive numbers. We seem to be running some blend of the spread with some wing t, wishbone type stuff. It can work with the QB we have, he just has to find that something special between the ears to pull it off. I think he can get there, but we shouldn't expect it to be automatic off the bat. Its going to take some work, and it may not be till after the Bye that we really start to see the potential of this look. I highly doubt we scrap it as it seems to be the all or nothing route chosen in the off season.

#7 Navy_football

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:38 PM

I played a little a-back at Navy so I'm all about read option, or triple option - as we called it.

But, it's a gimmick offense. The service academies run it because they don't have the size at offensive line to control the game. Paul Johnson runs it at Georgia Tech because he's a former Navy OC, and he knows it like the back of his hand.

My opinion is the personnel on this o-line were not put together to run the read option. Requires faster linemen to reach block and cut pursuit. We have some big slow mofos on this line.

And no way I would want to expose my QB to the type of punishment he could take running the option. It's all fun and games til DEs just decide to smash Cam every time, regardless if he hands off or pitches the ball.

#8 bigdog10

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:51 PM

The problem I have with the zone read offense is the amount of time it takes post snap.

The zone read fake is essentially a play action fake without the QB turning his back to a defense. In order for a playaction fake to be effective, the offensive line, tightends, and backs have to do an outstanding job in protection. By doing that, it allows the qb to deliver the fake while also allowing the receivers to get behind the defense.

The problem we have, is that the opposing teams front four (in the giants game) and front eight (in the bucs game) overran our line. This creates a timing problem and immediately makes our QB focus on the rush rather than have his eyes down field.

If defenses are going to pin thier ears back and come after us, the screen/slant game is essential. In the case of the giants game (only rushing four or five for the most part), we have to do more runs from under center and give our offensive line a chance to get a push.

#9 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:54 PM

The real issue with Cam is that he made several really bad throws in our past game. A couple that were underthrown, a couple that were tipped, and three that were intercepted. And there were issues with other areas of the team as well.

He had a bad game. Deal with it and move on.

#10 Growl

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:00 PM

Once he can diagnose the play he can counter with either a long carry himself, a hand off to one of our RBs, or pull the fake for a Play Action pass.


So what your saying is that Chud wants an offense that consistently morphs.

I mean by that, that the play we are running literally isn't decided upon until the the pre and post snap reads have been made and decided, and he wants this on a wide spread scale rather than the basics that most offenses use.

If that is indeed what your saying, then interesting. That's gonna take some time to install though... It'll require every player on the field to have the ability to be in sync with each other and understand what's happening on each play-as the play is happening.

That's gonna take time. Maybe I'm being impatient, but I think id rather us ease into that while running what we can run now, and slowly incorperating it in. Im really tired of "developmental years."

#11 Herbert The Love Bug

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:22 PM

You people type too much. I can't read any of this

#12 panthers55

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:31 PM

I will address one issue which is lack of cut back runs using a zone option read. That is because the opposite guard from where the play is going pulls to create a lead blocker. But this means that the defensive DT on the backside comes in unblocked. The idea is that by the time he gets through the hole, the play has already been run to the opposite side. But it surely stops any cut back runs as the DT is bearing down on the running back if he hesitates at all.

#13 ItsPantone278

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:04 PM

So what your saying is that Chud wants an offense that consistently morphs.

I mean by that, that the play we are running literally isn't decided upon until the the pre and post snap reads have been made and decided, and he wants this on a wide spread scale rather than the basics that most offenses use.

If that is indeed what your saying, then interesting. That's gonna take some time to install though... It'll require every player on the field to have the ability to be in sync with each other and understand what's happening on each play-as the play is happening.

That's gonna take time. Maybe I'm being impatient, but I think id rather us ease into that while running what we can run now, and slowly incorperating it in. Im really tired of "developmental years."



Hammer meets nail growl. This offense will open up when Cam starts making the proper reads more consistently. We are asking a lot of him with this type of approach, but if we can weather the learning curve as a team this can be a really potent offense that features all of Cam's abilities.

#14 xlightsoutx

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:09 PM

I'd like to see on nearly every drive Cam check out of a play at least once. I'd like to see him running from side to side getting guys informed and set up and then we hit it for a good gain. Just one play each drive. That will show me that he can identify and, more importantly, take advantage of the defense. I don't see that a lot right now.

#15 rayzor

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:28 PM

So what your saying is that Chud wants an offense that consistently morphs.

I mean by that, that the play we are running literally isn't decided upon until the the pre and post snap reads have been made and decided, and he wants this on a wide spread scale rather than the basics that most offenses use.

If that is indeed what your saying, then interesting. That's gonna take some time to install though... It'll require every player on the field to have the ability to be in sync with each other and understand what's happening on each play-as the play is happening.

That's gonna take time. Maybe I'm being impatient, but I think id rather us ease into that while running what we can run now, and slowly incorperating it in. Im really tired of "developmental years."

the bolded is what i think is actually happening.

and yes...it will take some time but not as long as people think but longer than people obviously hope.

but...we are still a very young team whose window is a long way from closing and that is actually just on the brink of opening. we have much of the keys that are needed, including the primary one which is a legit franchise QB. things will work out soon enough. it will be a pain waiting for it but it will be well worth it when it happens, i'm sure.


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