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Defense getting pushed around...


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#46 CPF4LIFE

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:12 AM

McDermont will be a fall guy if we end the season with a horrible D and/or losing record.

For Marty and Chico


This is so true, Hell will freeze over the day Hurney is held accountable for anything on this team.

#47 CPF4LIFE

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:14 AM

Both Losses this year have come down to coaching not players. We are basically the 49ers of yesteryears.



Yep, And if we lose again on Sunday, i hope Cam is prepared to take all the heat again.

#48 CRA

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:30 AM

Both Losses this year have come down to coaching not players. We are basically the 49ers of yesteryears.

Disagree with that. Coaching has hurt the offense.....D has been a healthy combo of players and coaching. Wasn't the coaches fault Godfrey was a joke a that first TD Thur night, Beason had HUGE lapses on easy plays and gifts, etc.

Even on offense, we should of tied that game 7-7...and who knows how it unfolds I'd we counter their intitial momentum. Option worked well....setup Williams for a nice score. Smitty just half assed a block he makes every week.

#49 Kurb

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:33 AM

It's not attitude, coach's facial expressions, or the angle of the blade on the mower. It's talent, and we are devoid of it at the DT position and for the most part at the DE position.

Hurney does not value the DT position and has no idea how to draft, acquire, or hire coaches that create said pressure.



Should we go down the road where we are trying to run a D that utilizes LB blitzs for pressure yet only have one LB that is a good blitzer and he is coming off his 3rd ACL tear....

#50 csx

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:33 AM

Both Losses this year have come down to coaching not players. We are basically the 49ers of yesteryears.



Don't you think they in reality it comes down to both coaches and players? Why does it have to be one or the other?

#51 panfan32

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:43 AM

Lets thisnk about our DC for a minute here. He was the understudy of DC in Philly. Philly if Im correct ran a 3-4 (Please correct me if Im worng). A 3-4 is completely differnet than a 4-3 and you need different players at DE, DT, and LB. Now we are trying to run a 4-3 defense and throw in some 3-4 here and there. This is worng wrong worng... second our CB's (Like Gamble) are cover corners and are not built for a cover 2 zone defense. This is where we got burnt by the Gaints. Also our LB's (minus TD) are not cover LB's.

Also if you pay attention to past games with the Eagles, they use alot of blitz packages to get pressure on the QB which left them open to big plays down field if the blitz was picked up. I keep seeing tis this year and last year with our defense. I didnt like the DC we picked up and I knew our defense would have issues while he was here. FIRE HIS ASS!!!!!

#52 csx

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:47 AM

Lets thisnk about our DC for a minute here. He was the understudy of DC in Philly. Philly if Im correct ran a 3-4 (Please correct me if Im worng). A 3-4 is completely differnet than a 4-3 and you need different players at DE, DT, and LB. Now we are trying to run a 4-3 defense and throw in some 3-4 here and there. This is worng wrong worng... second our CB's (Like Gamble) are cover corners and are not built for a cover 2 zone defense. This is where we got burnt by the Gaints. Also our LB's (minus TD) are not cover LB's.



Philly was not a 3-4. It was Jim Johnson's 4-3, that he was the understudy of.

#53 thefuzz

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:51 AM

Should we go down the road where we are trying to run a D that utilizes LB blitzs for pressure yet only have one LB that is a good blitzer and he is coming off his 3rd ACL tear....



I don't think it's time yet.

But I can ride with you if you want to.

#54 rayzor

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:52 AM

Don't you think they in reality it comes down to both coaches and players? Why does it have to be one or the other?

people are always looking for that one thing to blame. the lynchpin.

truth is....the coaches don't have everyone on the same page and they have been doing some very questionable things game management-wise.

the players have been performing badly as well. lots of guys just being dumb at the wrong moment. they've gotten too caught up in the emotion of the moment and the coaches haven't been able to wrangle them in (fault of both parties). players have missed/blown assignments.

i think a lot of it comes down to just a lack of maturity and discipline. again...can't fault the players or coaches alone for that. they both share blame.

we are also starting too many rookies and new players. we need more established vets. i think eventually those guys we are starting early will become established but we need more solid vets for them to learn from (fault of hurney).

i think time and experience fixes a lot of things but right now things just aren't clicking the way they should all across the board. i'm just hoping that last week's embarrassment was a wake up call and a watershed moment for the team and that they get things turned around.

#55 CRA

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:06 PM

Lets thisnk about our DC for a minute here. He was the understudy of DC in Philly. Philly if Im correct ran a 3-4 (Please correct me if Im worng). A 3-4 is completely differnet than a 4-3 and you need different players at DE, DT, and LB. Now we are trying to run a 4-3 defense and throw in some 3-4 here and there. This is worng wrong worng... second our CB's (Like Gamble) are cover corners and are not built for a cover 2 zone defense. This is where we got burnt by the Gaints. Also our LB's (minus TD) are not cover LB's.

Also if you pay attention to past games with the Eagles, they use alot of blitz packages to get pressure on the QB which left them open to big plays down field if the blitz was picked up. I keep seeing tis this year and last year with our defense. I didnt like the DC we picked up and I knew our defense would have issues while he was here. FIRE HIS ASS!!!!!


Was a 4-3 with a HEAVY emphasis on blitzing. The year he was fired his Philly team was still top 3 in generating turnovers....with a weak roster.

Problem is McD is in Carolina not running the aggressive scheme he was taught. I am sure that is on Rivera.

#56 carolina-chuck

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:16 PM

I am still up in the air over it....

But if that is the case....how do you explain those San Diego defenses and Chicago defenses.


Yea, I'd say the bears defense covered a lot for Rivera when he was there. That was a great D. Why'd you think Lovie Smith didn't extend Rivera and why the bears are still playin a high level of defense now?

And for SD, he was really just great for one year. And it was based off on statistics. If you go back and watch that season, SD defense wasnt as good on the field as it was on paper.

#57 Cape Fear Cat

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:19 PM

One of my biggest concerns at the moment is how the defense is getting pushed around. I don't mean it in a figurative sense, but literally against the run the pile moving 5 yards and our guys getting knocked back. I can't remember a time when this happened as often.

The most troubling thing is that our guys are no less strong or heavy as in the past, but it seems to be an attitude. The defense reacting more instead of dictating, allowing the will of the offense to push the pile forward.

What will it take for these guys to get angry?


That's what I've been seeing too. I firmly believe there needs to be a mean streak, a nastiness that craves good old smash mouth play. Think guys like Conrad Dobler, or Dick Butkis. It can cover a lot of sins.

#58 carolina-chuck

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:26 PM

SD was only good for 1 out of his 3 years as DC and Chicago is just as good without him as it was with him which leads me to believe their success had more to do with the system and players than anything he did.

The problem with the Panther's D right now is they need strong direction and I just don;t see them getting it.

I can't help but think the Rivera's first mistake was not hiring a strong DC - or at least someone who had a proven track record. All he got with McD was someone who had already failed in his one attempt.


Exactly.

And Herm Edwards was available at the times, choose McDermott. Herm is a very charismatic guy.

#59 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:36 PM

I agree, but you might want to be carefull with that thought. I called for a coach to show emotion on the sideline and I got blasted for it. pantherclaw might get angry again because he feals that "as a grown man, having another grown man yell, scream, cuss, doesn't do anything to inspire me, or show me that he is a true leader of men."
I personally feel that you get what you allow. Rivera may be more vocal in the lockerroom or at practice, but at times, it's needed on the sideline. Kinda like raising kids, you can discipline them at home, but sometimes they WILL test you outside of the home. A quick, deliberate response to show your stance works best. Yes you can wait, but it's less effective.


I certainly don't believe that players respond to a coach that yells at them constantly... but at the same time, when a player screws up, there is a time to yell and let players know that a bad job won't be tolerated, and I have yet to see Rivera do anything like that. Not saying he hasn't, but I haven't seen it.

#60 CRA

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:38 PM

Yea, I'd say the bears defense covered a lot for Rivera when he was there. That was a great D. Why'd you think Lovie Smith didn't extend Rivera and why the bears are still playin a high level of defense now?

And for SD, he was really just great for one year. And it was based off on statistics. If you go back and watch that season, SD defense wasnt as good on the field as it was on paper.


Rivera's last year they were #1 in pts and #2 in points.

Bears haven't been close to that. They have been middle of the road since. I mean compared to us they are a high level performing D.

As far as SD....they were great. ST is what cost them games and pts.


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