Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Defense getting pushed around...


  • Please log in to reply
77 replies to this topic

#61 Udogg

Udogg

    Cardiac Victim since 95

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,486 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:40 PM

SD was only good for 1 out of his 3 years as DC and Chicago is just as good without him as it was with him which leads me to believe their success had more to do with the system and players than anything he did.

The problem with the Panther's D right now is they need strong direction and I just don;t see them getting it.

I can't help but think the Rivera's first mistake was not hiring a strong DC - or at least someone who had a proven track record. All he got with McD was someone who had already failed in his one attempt.


no.

#62 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,174 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:46 PM

I certainly don't believe that players respond to a coach that yells at them constantly... but at the same time, when a player screws up, there is a time to yell and let players know that a bad job won't be tolerated, and I have yet to see Rivera do anything like that. Not saying he hasn't, but I haven't seen it.

it all depends on how effective they are with the approach they have and the amount of respect shown and perceived to the player under-performing.

i have always done much better at motivating and directing people when i kept from raising my voice. there were occasions that i felt it was necessary to get loud, but that was in dealing with people under extreme emotional distress or in danger of some kind. usually i do just fine getting my point across without yelling. i have also rarely seen people respond favorably to yelling and have never found it to be useful at all in motivating me.

unless it's bootcamp in the military (where the purpose is to break down individuals and make them more receptive to direction) i just don't see yelling being any better than any other mode of motivating or leading...in fact i think it's rather weak, tbh, if used very often. at best and at most it should only ever be used intermittently.

#63 Darth Biscuit

Darth Biscuit

    Dark Lord

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 33,990 posts
  • LocationWilmington, NC

Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:48 PM

it all depends on how effective they are with the approach they have and the amount of respect shown and perceived to the player under-performing.

i have always done much better at motivating and directing people when i kept from raising my voice. there were occasions that i felt it was necessary to get loud, but that was in dealing with people under extreme emotional distress or in danger of some kind. usually i do just fine getting my point across without yelling. i have also rarely seen people respond favorably to yelling and have never found it to be useful at all in motivating me.

unless it's bootcamp in the military (where the purpose is to break down individuals and make them more receptive to direction) i just don't see yelling being any better than any other mode of motivating or leading...in fact i think it's rather weak, tbh, if used very often. at best and at most it should only ever be used intermittently.


...and I completely agree. I don't think a coach that constantly yells and berates is necessarily effective... but one that just stands there in the face of mistakes isn't either.

#64 Chaos

Chaos

    @chaos_cltsports

  • ALL-PRO
  • 9,591 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:54 PM

Theres no such thing of a Pro Bowl player with a chip on their shoulders if that's what you're looking for. Maybe a 15 yr vet may have something to prove.

It's nothing with the attitude of the players on D. The problem is the coaching.


James Harrison? Clay Matthews? Ray Lewis? Brian Urlacher?

#65 Chaos

Chaos

    @chaos_cltsports

  • ALL-PRO
  • 9,591 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:56 PM

...and I completely agree. I don't think a coach that constantly yells and berates is necessarily effective... but one that just stands there in the face of mistakes isn't either.


Petrino comes to mind with his short-lived tenure in the NFL.

#66 panfan32

panfan32

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 589 posts
  • LocationFayetteville, North Carolina

Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:56 PM

Was a 4-3 with a HEAVY emphasis on blitzing. The year he was fired his Philly team was still top 3 in generating turnovers....with a weak roster.

Problem is McD is in Carolina not running the aggressive scheme he was taught. I am sure that is on Rivera.



Thanks. I could not remeber which it was. I just know they mya have been top on turn overs, however they also got burnt alot. Call me crazy, I would have stayed with Ron Meeks as the DC. Our offense sucked but the defense was doing pretty good under him after the second season. Ron may noit have been the long term answer, put the players we have was drafted/signed for that typoe of defense. Not the kind we are running now.

Also I agree with another persons comments, our players are making mistakes. Jon Beason has not looked like the same player so far as he was before his injury. However, it could just be rust and lack of time in the new season. Also I know everyone is ranting and raving about our Rookie LB. He looked good in preason, now its like watching a different player all together.

#67 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 26,299 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:04 PM

Thanks. I could not remeber which it was. I just know they mya have been top on turn overs, however they also got burnt alot. Call me crazy, I would have stayed with Ron Meeks as the DC. Our offense sucked but the defense was doing pretty good under him after the second season. Ron may noit have been the long term answer, put the players we have was drafted/signed for that typoe of defense. Not the kind we are running now.

Also I agree with another persons comments, our players are making mistakes. Jon Beason has not looked like the same player so far as he was before his injury. However, it could just be rust and lack of time in the new season. Also I know everyone is ranting and raving about our Rookie LB. He looked good in preason, now its like watching a different player all together.

.

You need create talent and coaching to line up and stop teams. McD didn't have talent to stop teams when he left Philly....scheme generated a to of turnovers....and u can't ask for much more than that.

#68 cranky

cranky

    Junior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 104 posts
  • LocationLocust, NC

Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:10 PM

Rivera's last year they were #1 in pts and #2 in points.

Bears haven't been close to that. They have been middle of the road since. I mean compared to us they are a high level performing D.


Bears have been a top 10 defense every year cept for 09 according to FootballOutsiders.com and in the last 3 years (this year included) they were ranked 3rd, 4th and 4th. Hardly middle of the road.





As far as SD....they were great. ST is what cost them games and pts.


In Rivera's first year, 09, they ranked 22nd. In his second year the defense ranked 23rd. His last year was a good one though as they ranked 7th.

So he had 1 good defense in 3 years with SD and Chicago hasn't lost a step without him.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like Chico. I think he's honest, upfront and holds people accountable. I just have to wonder if he was the right man to rebuild the franchise.

#69 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 26,299 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:14 PM

Bears have been a top 10 defense every year cept for 09 according to FootballOutsiders.com and in the last 3 years (this year included) they were ranked 3rd, 4th and 4th. Hardly middle of the road.







In Rivera's first year, 09, they ranked 22nd. In his second year the defense ranked 23rd. His last year was a good one though as they ranked 7th.

So he had 1 good defense in 3 years with SD and Chicago hasn't lost a step without him.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like Chico. I think he's honest, upfront and holds people accountable. I just have to wonder if he was the right man to rebuild the franchise.


Just picking a year...

2007 - Chicago - 26th in yards, 16th in points, 13th in takeaways.

That isn't judged as a top 10 D with how it is widely evaluated

#70 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,174 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:26 PM

...and I completely agree. I don't think a coach that constantly yells and berates is necessarily effective... but one that just stands there in the face of mistakes isn't either.

it all depends on what they do when the crowds aren't around and i'm not naive enough to think that what we see on tv or at games is all there is to the picture. a lot of stuff happens in that lockerroom or in meetings or in practice that we just don't see.

some leaders will save the extreme corrections of under-performers for when they aren't in public or around others. when you berate in front of others it shows a lack of discipline on your part and makes you out to be more of a bully than anything. that's just a kind of leadership i find on the whole really unproductive and lacks team building.

#71 Darth Biscuit

Darth Biscuit

    Dark Lord

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 33,990 posts
  • LocationWilmington, NC

Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:41 PM

it all depends on what they do when the crowds aren't around and i'm not naive enough to think that what we see on tv or at games is all there is to the picture. a lot of stuff happens in that lockerroom or in meetings or in practice that we just don't see.

some leaders will save the extreme corrections of under-performers for when they aren't in public or around others. when you berate in front of others it shows a lack of discipline on your part and makes you out to be more of a bully than anything. that's just a kind of leadership i find on the whole really unproductive and lacks team building.


This is one of those deals that, had we been winning, wouldn't even be a discussion... if we win 3 or 4 games, no one will say "why did Rivera do that?"

Rivera did seem at first to me to be the sort of "hard ass" coach, in the likes of Parcells, etc. It turns out he's not... and that's not necessarily bad or good... he just doesn't fit the mold I think a lot of us assumed he would... and it makes people question, esp when we lose and he just stands there on the sidelines expressionless. I have no clue what goes on in the lockerroom or on the practice field... so hopefully we're all just idiot fans and he really does know what he's doing. I'm perfectly happy with that if it's the case.

#72 catfang

catfang

    Senior Member

  • ALL-PRO
  • 6,650 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:50 PM

Hey, there's no clapping and gum chewing going on. Count your blessings.

#73 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,174 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:51 PM

This is one of those deals that, had we been winning, wouldn't even be a discussion... if we win 3 or 4 games, no one will say "why did Rivera do that?"

Rivera did seem at first to me to be the sort of "hard ass" coach, in the likes of Parcells, etc. It turns out he's not... and that's not necessarily bad or good... he just doesn't fit the mold I think a lot of us assumed he would... and it makes people question, esp when we lose and he just stands there on the sidelines expressionless. I have no clue what goes on in the lockerroom or on the practice field... so hopefully we're all just idiot fans and he really does know what he's doing. I'm perfectly happy with that if it's the case.

i knew that we weren't getting someone in the bill parcells/bell cowher raving lunatic on the sidelines. i knew enough about him and had read enough from fellow players and those he's coached with to know his temperament and demeanor and i was fine with it. my first choice was jim harbaugh who isn't exactly quiet on the sidelines. he just didn't have any desire to leave that area out there. that's a whole other discussion from a long time ago.

point was...i don't/didn't really care what their temperament or demeanor was. i just wanted someone who could mold the young guys they were getting and create a winning culture. i don't care how it's done as long as it is done. it doesn't bother me that it isn't done yet because, as i've said before, it's still early and contrary to what others believe, he hasn't had enough time to get everything where it could/should be. he's only into the 4th week of his second season and that just isn't enough time, imo, to accurately gauge what he can do with these guys. they give these guys 4-5 year deals for a reason.

#74 Marguide

Marguide

    South of the Border

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,709 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:54 PM

You don't have to yell and scream to be engaged with your team and the game unfolding on the field. Some coaches pace, some coaches spend a lot of time talking to the coordinators, some take notes. Ron does not seem to do any of that.

I believe Rivera is studying the team on game day rather than managing or controlling the team. That's fine if you are truly thinking long term, but coaches don't have the luxury of always looking a year or two down the road. Turnarounds are expected in the short term.

I am still in wait and see mode with Ron, but the goodwill he had coming into this year has already been spent. It's time to win.

#75 carolina-chuck

carolina-chuck

    HORNETS 2014

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,678 posts
  • LocationKurby

Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:24 PM

James Harrison? Clay Matthews? Ray Lewis? Brian Urlacher?


I would consider Ray Lewis and Urlacher vet vet vet. Which i said above that these are some guys with a chip on their shoulders but really?

Clay Matthews needs to prove what?

James Harrison needing to prove to Goodell that he feels like he's constantly being attack?


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Shop at Amazon Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com