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#46 panther4life

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:39 AM

And you can't miss on running backs huh? Was reggie bush worth # 2 overall? Lawrence Maroney # 21, to the Pats? Addai was the other running back drafted in the same class as Willimms in the first in the first round of 06.


Then in 08 Felix Jones and Rashard Mendenhall were the 2 to go directly after Stewart in the first round of 08.

#47 panther4life

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:54 AM

How many of you have taken some time to do some legit research on other GM's and how many misses they have had on 1st round picks, good players they let walk, players they overpaid for, etc?

I have said it before and will say it again. This team should have been blown up from top to bottom after the 09 season including Hurney. JR failed to do this. Instead he said fug everybody but Hurney and I am blowing this poo up and starting over in 11 with Hurney leading the way.

We were a disaster in 2010 and now have talent to get us places 2 years later. Let me remind you guy's JR also decided he would like to save some money on head coaches after Fox left. This could be a reason why candidates like Harbaugh and Cowher were never considered. Fug we were inteverviewing straight bargain bin's and Hurney took the best of what he was allowed to pay for.

The man is doing a fine job all things considered. When you look at the record and ignore everything else then fug Hurney, fug steve smith, fug Cam, fug everyone. The record is an indictment on every single person in the organization from john Kasay to Jerry Richardson. As convient as it is the record simply can not reasonably be pinned on Hurney alone.

#48 Cyberjag

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:02 PM

How many of you have taken some time to do some legit research on other GM's and how many misses they have had on 1st round picks, good players they let walk, players they overpaid for, etc?

I have... PM me if you want the data.

The bottom line is that Hurney doesn't suck. He's got some problems letting go of players, and he no longer plays free agency like he used to (which, again, may be on orders from above). He's very good at cap management--all these people whining about Jake's contract completely miss the bigger picture on that. He architected a hell of a turn-around for the franchise with John Fox and his early signings. And now he's got a legit franchise QB, and he will be judged going forward by how well the coaches he hired perform.

He's not the best in the league, but he's better than most, and there's no guarantee that a replacement would be an improvement--those aren't more often than not.

#49 thefuzz

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:04 PM

And you can't miss on running backs huh? Was reggie bush worth # 2 overall? Lawrence Maroney # 21, to the Pats? Addai was the other running back drafted in the same class as Willimms in the first in the first round of 06.


Then in 08 Felix Jones and Rashard Mendenhall were the 2 to go directly after Stewart in the first round of 08.



RB is one of the "easiest" picks to make, RARELY do you get a straight up bust, and the uneducated fans love the pick as they are stat people.

The picks that win you games are not as sexy as RB's and LB's.

#50 panther4life

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:10 PM

I have... PM me if you want the data.

The bottom line is that Hurney doesn't suck. He's got some problems letting go of players, and he no longer plays free agency like he used to (which, again, may be on orders from above). He's very good at cap management--all these people whining about Jake's contract completely miss the bigger picture on that. He architected a hell of a turn-around for the franchise with John Fox and his early signings. And now he's got a legit franchise QB, and he will be judged going forward by how well the coaches he hired perform.

He's not the best in the league, but he's better than most, and there's no guarantee that a replacement would be an improvement--those aren't more often than not.

you and I are on the same page my friend. I don't come on here to get in pissing matches with other panther fans. I try to enlighten them but for some reason people will never swallow their internet pride and realize the error in their thought process. I have never claimed Hurney is the best in biz and its reallty impossible to pinpoint exactly who is because their is so many variables and such that come into play. I just want everyone to realize he does not suck and is actually above average when it comes to doing his job.

#51 panther4life

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:11 PM

RB is one of the "easiest" picks to make, RARELY do you get a straight up bust, and the uneducated fans love the pick as they are stat people.

The picks that win you games are not as sexy as RB's and LB's.


So what if its an easy pick to make. If its the right pick then you make it.

#52 panther4life

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:14 PM

RB is one of the "easiest" picks to make, RARELY do you get a straight up bust, and the uneducated fans love the pick as they are stat people.

The picks that win you games are not as sexy as RB's and LB's.


Very Ironic you mention uneducated. I have done more research on the topic at hand than 95% if not more than members who chime in on the subject. I am not pretending I would make an excellent GM but I do feel I can fairly judge them based of my research. You sitting here acting as if you have a better clue by dogging the picks of Williams, Stewart, Beason and Davis puts off the appearance you think you would do better which is asinine.

#53 panther4life

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:19 PM

If there was such a way for us to take to trial Hurney's job performance and have it heard in front of a unbiased Jury equipped to correctly judge a GM with me acting as his defense attorney vs you and your best team of prosecutor's I am sure he would come out smelling like roses.

#54 thefuzz

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:33 PM

So what if its an easy pick to make. If its the right pick then you make it.



They are the wrong fuging picks.

What do you not understand?

#55 panther4life

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:33 PM

They are the wrong fuging picks.

What do you not understand?


who was the right pick then? and did you honestly throw a fit at the time and say fug you Hurney I hate you for drafting Stewart, Willians, Beason and Davis?

#56 thefuzz

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:38 PM

Very Ironic you mention uneducated. I have done more research on the topic at hand than 95% if not more than members who chime in on the subject. I am not pretending I would make an excellent GM but I do feel I can fairly judge them based of my research. You sitting here acting as if you have a better clue by dogging the picks of Williams, Stewart, Beason and Davis puts off the appearance you think you would do better which is asinine.



I was not referring to you in any way when talking about uneducated nor was I talking about the level of schooling of the fans that think that Hurney is doing a good job.

IMO many fans are homers more than they should be, and that comes from only following 1 team day in and day out.

I can promise you one thing. I would not have drafted 2 LB's and 2 RB's within a 5 year period when anyone with half a brain could tell that the rules were being adjusted to a more pass orientated league.

Listen I like all those player, they are good teammates, and they are good at what they do, however those 4 players, at those 2 positions do not equate to wins.

#57 thefuzz

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:43 PM

who was the right pick then? and did you honestly throw a fit at the time and say fug you Hurney I hate you for drafting Stewart, Willians, Beason and Davis?



Didn't like the Davis and Stew picks, and yes I threw things.

Liked the Beason pick.

Was so so on the Williams pick.

IMO you do not have to use first round draft picks to find runningbacks. That is a position that can be had later in the draft, and for less money.

In the first you go after QB's, LT's, DT's, CB's, DE's etc. Rarely are those positions found later in the draft, but every now and again you can get one.

RB's and LB's are found all over the draft board.

#58 panther4life

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:55 PM

Didn't like the Davis and Stew picks, and yes I threw things.

Liked the Beason pick.

Was so so on the Williams pick.

IMO you do not have to use first round draft picks to find runningbacks. That is a position that can be had later in the draft, and for less money.

In the first you go after QB's, LT's, DT's, CB's, DE's etc. Rarely are those positions found later in the draft, but every now and again you can get one.

RB's and LB's are found all over the draft board.


In 2005 you did not like the Davis pick and would have preffered a QB,LT,CB,DE. Well Fox never ever wanted anything to do with a rookie a QB. If he did maybe we could have had Aaron Rodgers. We also were set at DT with Buckner and Jenkins. In 06 we replaced Buckner with Kemo.

The years you mentioned we had Gross at LT.
We also had Ken Lucas and Chris Gamble at corner.
We had Julius Peppers and either rucker or Charles Johnson at DE.
Aside from 2008 we had Jenkins

So that leaves a DT over Stewart in 08. Stewart went 13th overall. A DT did not come off the board until pick 29 and it was Kentwan Balmer. I'll take Stewart thanks.

And just to be thorough the next DT was Trevor Laws at 47. No where near the first round did any DT come off the board that year.

See what I mean by looking at things objectively now?

#59 iampantherman

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:19 PM

And here's a 'rubber meets the road' question. Since 2002, the rosters produced by the Steeler system have faced one losing season and one 500 season. Every other year they've been in the playoffs. Two of those years they won the Super Bowl and two others they were in it.

Now tell me, what's the Panthers record in that time period?

Do you really wanna compare their roster building system and ours? And remember if you do that this is a team which doesn't go after big free agents and even lets a fair share of their own walk if their contract demands are too high.


This is absolutely the essence of my problem with Hurney. You can get lost in the "fine print" all you want, but there is no defending a GM of a team with our on-field results. Unfortuantely my problem with Hurney is, by extension, a problem with JR- who isn't going away. While he is our owner, we will rarely find ourselves competing for anything meaningful. (other than high draft picks. ;) )

#60 mwright350

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:25 PM

I'm not sure JR is taking as active a role in every single thing we do as we think he is.

I could be wrong but it's not like he is the GM like you see with Jerry Jones and his ilk.

It's very possible that Hurney (and his staff) is taking the "we want to build through the draft" philosophy that he was given and utterly failing at executing it. You CAN build a good team through the draft without spending like Dan Snyder in free agency. But it takes a good scouting department and a GM with a mind for drafting talent (who will also listen to the scouting department). Our drafts are almost universally terrible to luke-warm and we are terrible at finding the diamond in the rough type talent that you need to make this philosophy work. To me that falls directly on Hurney's shoulders.

We also have a history of being slow to react to the changing meta-game of the NFL. As the league moved to a passing league we stuck with the old school run the ball all the time mentality and failed to draft a suitable replacement for our mediocre quarterback / a compliment to our one stellar receiver. Our defense also failed to adapt to the fact that we're in a passing league. Safeties and Corners are as critical now as they have ever been and we are bereft of significant talent at those key positions. Especially being in a division with Atlanta (best receiving duo in football right now?) and Drew Brees this is unforgivable.

JR's culpability in this is that Hurney is still here. IMO at least.


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