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Lower taxes equals hire more people and other nonsense


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#1 carpantherfan84

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:01 PM

Im sick and tired of people saying that lowering small business owners taxes will make them hire more people. That is ridiculous. Payroll is a cost of doing business. Costs of doing business are tax deductible. Your income tax rate on revenue used for payroll is 0%. Always has been, always will be.

You only pay income taxes on money you take as profit. Want a tax break, just hire someone, take less profit and write off the difference. Your taxes go down. I have been a small business owner for a few years now. The only people who believe that lowering taxes has any effect on hiring are the people looking for jobs. Im sorry to inform you that income taxes and employee hiring are not related.

#2 pstall

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:26 PM

So how much more taxes do you want to pay?

#3 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:04 PM

Your wrong!

Exxon payed an obsene 2% corporate tax rate on their meager profits in 2012. If only there was a leader who would eliminate all corporate taxes then everyone will be employed and current employees will get pay raises!

FACT! There is a National Jobs lever a president can pull located in the panic room of the White House and the Big O refuses to pull it!

Giving big corporations money works100% of the time! The banking industry started to loan out money immediately when they recieved the Stimilus pkg...

Real Fact: America will be screwed by either canidate.... One just is more deeply promoted by corporate lobbies..



#4 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:58 PM

you see NEXT time we cut taxes...that's when it'll all start trickling down! just you wait!

all of those other times didn't count

#5 pstall

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:12 PM

if this guy has his own small biz i have to think he wants to make money right? so since that's the case and lowering taxes will NOT help him. i'm curious to know how much more taxes he wants to pay so he can make more money as a small biz owner.

let me know your tax rate now and how much a higher one you have projected will increase your profits. not to mention market share and growth. just curious.

#6 logic1977

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:39 AM

I like how the OP says tax cuts wont help hiring and instead of responding to that everyone argues about tax INCREASES.

This is why we are doomed. OP stated a FACT and people cant even have the decency to agree on that.



#7 Zod

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:00 AM

Taxes have been low for the last 30 years compared to previous generations.

Where are the jobs?


Derp

#8 pstall

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:17 AM

Responding in way that isn't typical doesn't mean avoidance of the ques. I'm trying to get a baseline of his tax scenario.what may be a fact for him may not be for all the other bizs

#9 twylyght

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:05 AM

Im sick and tired of people saying that lowering small business owners taxes will make them hire more people. That is ridiculous. Payroll is a cost of doing business. Costs of doing business are tax deductible. Your income tax rate on revenue used for payroll is 0%. Always has been, always will be.

You only pay income taxes on money you take as profit. Want a tax break, just hire someone, take less profit and write off the difference. Your taxes go down. I have been a small business owner for a few years now. The only people who believe that lowering taxes has any effect on hiring are the people looking for jobs. Im sorry to inform you that income taxes and employee hiring are not related.


if you had asked a small business owner, you'd have gotten confirmation of not only how taxes affect the bottom line (which is put towards the overhead for payroll) but also how cronyistic regulations do precisely the same thing.

this article summed up a lot of it nicely: http://smallbiztrend...-and-taxes.html

personally, the biggest reason for myself to slash taxes is that government is wasting MORE than enough money as it is. moreover, the tax code is not supposed to be a morality bludgeon nor a means of negatve reinforcement. it's SUPPOSED to be the means to collect revenue to carry out its Constitutional obligations to its citizens. it is not meant to compell its citizen servants to give their resources for whatever it deems to be moral/important.

#10 carpantherfan84

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:08 AM

Okay I cant respond to everyone so here is a general rebuttal.
First off I will not divulge personal tax information because frankly I'm not running for president and its none of anybody's business and also I don't want something said in some forum to influence any potential customers.

That being said I want to clarify my point and answer the essential question posed to my statement. I was trying to point out that the income taxes I pay as a small business owner are only on the money I decide to take as profit. If I wanted to expand my business (hire more people, change or add locations etc) I would take a loan. The money from the loan would go to my additional costs and the additional revenue would not be taxed because I would be able to claim the additional expenses on my personal tax return, to include the money I used to pay off the loan! It actually works very well and the only thing that could hurt my business is my ability to run it.

Do I want to pay more taxes? Hell No. Nobody wants to pay taxes so that is a silly question. My point is that any tax on my business does not transfer to my personal taxes in the way that is being touted in the debates. So the conversation is stupid and It pisses me off that people are going to use that as a basis for which President to vote for! People that probably never owned a business or wouldn't benefit from any change in the law either way. America is filled with low skilled workers and no manufacturing jobs. Im sorry but it really is too late to change that. Seriously look around your house. How much would that 50 inch TV cost if it was assembled in America. If they had to pay the workers 50,000+ to write Samsung on the front,lol Nobody would own them. But these are HUGE corporations with billions in assests and millionaires at the helm. They dont pay the same taxes that we pay because they keep their money over seas. They have no intention of bringing those jobs back here because even if they were only taxed 5% they would not have the revenue from sales to produce money to be taxed!! The companies that people are seeking employment from have no intention giving them jobs and it is not because of taxes.

Take control of your life! Take advantage of all the programs that are available to help you become educated so that you are no longer a low skilled worker, or start your own business. Stop begging for tax breaks for some millionaire that doesn't benefit you so he can pay employees that dont work in America.

#11 carpantherfan84

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:20 AM

if you had asked a small business owner, you'd have gotten confirmation of not only how taxes affect the bottom line (which is put towards the overhead for payroll) but also how cronyistic regulations do precisely the same thing.

this article summed up a lot of it nicely: http://smallbiztrend...-and-taxes.html

personally, the biggest reason for myself to slash taxes is that government is wasting MORE than enough money as it is. moreover, the tax code is not supposed to be a morality bludgeon nor a means of negatve reinforcement. it's SUPPOSED to be the means to collect revenue to carry out its Constitutional obligations to its citizens. it is not meant to compell its citizen servants to give their resources for whatever it deems to be moral/important.


Okay so how does slashing taxes affect you? What taxes would you slash? How much? What would you use the money for? What are constitutional obligations?

These are the questions our government is charged to answer, with power outlined in that Constitution you spoke of. Any disagreement you had would amount too you imposing your particular morality and or sense of importance. I dont want your morality affecting my life no more than you want mine affecting yours. So the Founding Fathers decided that this system of checks and balances will be the determining body for what is best for the people. And they would be given that power through election. Or maybe I should go to Microsoft or Apple for tax instructions. Im sure they have my best interest at heart. Besides I own an Ipod and even though I hate Windows my pc works great. Just let the corporations control the money and make the decisions, right?

#12 twylyght

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:47 AM

The Constitution is pretty plainly written and is the founding legal document for how American citizens are supposed to be governed. It is the original founding contract supposedly keeping government from infringing the rights of its people as countless others before it had done. Hence, the reference to the American Dream and why people so often referred to its genius. So, it isn't an opinion I wish to impose on others... it is the opposite. The contract was supposed to outline how government would run to stay out of our lives and still protect our rights from being violated.

For instance... someone arbitrarily used a set of logic to impose various "sin" taxes for products like tobacco, alcohol, etc... They then used government to impose THEIR will on everyone else to "protect us from ourselves". This is CLEARLY outside the bounds of government's responsibility. For others, they decided to outlaw outright. Yet, having a family serves as a "good" thing and government should be giving people tax breaks for their good deeds to incentivize said behavior. Corporate cronyism steps in and decides to make sure that their lobbyists shore up favorable tax breaks for their businesses in the name of "protecting America's infrastructure". The list goes on for miles.

In the end, what I am compelled to pay in taxes goes towards all kinds of things that I fundamentally disagree with. I am not alone. So, here is the crazy idea... what if government stuck to its sole purpose of protecting its citizens and their rights? What if by some crazy notion we as citizens are left to our own devices to make our own decisions on what is moral and how to spend our time and resources accordingly?

I support the Fair Tax as a solution to the problem of just the tax code. The spending problem is something wholly different insofar as government is concerned (which skyrocketed under Reagan if I recall correctly). I would couple that with killing off the Fed as Ron Paul has outlined. That would help to stave off the blank check mentality that Washington wields at the expense of future generations. At that point the Fair tax would simply hold government accountable for how well its citizens do. It would also give people a REAL sense of what EXACTLY the government was taking from them rather than covering it up in graduated increments in the process of production.

After that, every citizen that votes, would actually have skin in the game and would then be incentivized to make informed decisions about what those persons representing them are actually doing with their confiscated coffers.

#13 carpantherfan84

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:38 AM

The Constitution is pretty plainly written and is the founding legal document for how American citizens are supposed to be governed. It is the original founding contract supposedly keeping government from infringing the rights of its people as countless others before it had done. Hence, the reference to the American Dream and why people so often referred to its genius. So, it isn't an opinion I wish to impose on others... it is the opposite. The contract was supposed to outline how government would run to stay out of our lives and still protect our rights from being violated.

For instance... someone arbitrarily used a set of logic to impose various "sin" taxes for products like tobacco, alcohol, etc... They then used government to impose THEIR will on everyone else to "protect us from ourselves". This is CLEARLY outside the bounds of government's responsibility. For others, they decided to outlaw outright. Yet, having a family serves as a "good" thing and government should be giving people tax breaks for their good deeds to incentivize said behavior. Corporate cronyism steps in and decides to make sure that their lobbyists shore up favorable tax breaks for their businesses in the name of "protecting America's infrastructure". The list goes on for miles.

In the end, what I am compelled to pay in taxes goes towards all kinds of things that I fundamentally disagree with. I am not alone. So, here is the crazy idea... what if government stuck to its sole purpose of protecting its citizens and their rights? What if by some crazy notion we as citizens are left to our own devices to make our own decisions on what is moral and how to spend our time and resources accordingly?

I support the Fair Tax as a solution to the problem of just the tax code. The spending problem is something wholly different insofar as government is concerned (which skyrocketed under Reagan if I recall correctly). I would couple that with killing off the Fed as Ron Paul has outlined. That would help to stave off the blank check mentality that Washington wields at the expense of future generations. At that point the Fair tax would simply hold government accountable for how well its citizens do. It would also give people a REAL sense of what EXACTLY the government was taking from them rather than covering it up in graduated increments in the process of production.

After that, every citizen that votes, would actually have skin in the game and would then be incentivized to make informed decisions about what those persons representing them are actually doing with their confiscated coffers.


So many different places to go I hope you got time bud.

First off the Preamble to the US Constitution:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

This statement pretty much leads into every other point in the Constitution and explains every role of government. The problem is that you and I will interpret them differently so we elect people to interpret them for us. I might feel like I would do a better job, or you might feel like they are doing to much but to say that the Constitution doesn't afford them the power to make that decision is ludacris. Thats what it is to live in a Democratic Republic. Also lobbying is allowed in the Constitution and while the idea may be morally objectional (lord knows I dont like it) the act is permissable under the Constitution and protected under free speech.

As far as the government solely protecting people and its rights. The governement has had a system of "assisting" the poor and disadvantaged since its inception. Pre Civil war government constantly donated land and finances to people willing to settle west of the Mississippi. Or provided reconstruction funds and land post civil war. This came from money collected as taxes and is a major reason our country is prosperous today and some of the land has made people insanely rich.

Money was given to encourage growth in the stock market pre depression but it was the "deregulation" of the masses and hands off approach of government that allowed its crash. Post depression saw another increase in government aid and food for the millions of poor allowing many of our grandparents not to starve, even though the money came from the precious few that survived the depression unscathed. Post Civil Rights era has a different theme as it seems that people do not like the idea of poor minorities receiving financial aid. With this president the government has placed an emphasis on the education and health care of the poor, while also not raising taxes on the middle income (which has never been accomplished before. I challenge you to prove that wrong) and only raising the taxes of the rich to a number even with one of the most prosperous times in our recent history. In short the general welfare of the people includes a lot of governemnt programs that you may not agree with but you voted (or maybe you didn't) and the winner got to pick the ones that are important. He also gets to decide how to pay for it.


Being left to our own devices? What does that really mean? Taxing you less? So that you would have more money to pay to corporations that basically decide every facet of your life. Just because you get to pick which car you drive or what tv you watch doesnt mean you control what cars are available for you to choose from or what road they drive on. Or what fuel they use. This country is filled with supercorporations that make decisions on the quality of life of entire nations. Without goverment regulations the corporations would really and unabashedly control our lives. Diminish the power of the government and watch companies like exxon mobil and microsoft start changing the whole dynamic of American life. Eliminate education incentives and yes the average family may recieve 150 more a month out of their taxes but that is not going to be enough to cover the new cost of unregulated health care, and education. All the companies would have to do is band together to establish a new price point that benefits them and there would be nothing you could do about it. They could even create situations that limit the ability of new entrepreneurs to enter the market, Case and point Walmart. They arbitrarily set the price of goods in an area to eliminate competition then raise the prices back when they are the only thing left. And you know what? We all still shop there.

And those "sin" taxes you speak of. Alcohol kills hundreds of thousands of innocent bystanders every year in automobile accidents. By that fact alone the government is required to take steps to mitigate that unnecessary loss of life. However the previous attempt to ban it resulted in more loss of life, so they hired more cops, taxed the hell out of it and regulated its distribution. Seems reasonable to me. Same with cigarrettes. Cant ban it without possibly infringing on personal liberties, okay got it but to not do anything would be an affront to the millions that are really suffering from its accessibility.

#14 GAme

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:52 AM

You are obviously small time and don't have employees. Anyone can be successful with a business out of a pickup truck.

#15 carpantherfan84

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:56 AM

You are obviously small time and don't have employees. Anyone can be successful with a business out of a pickup truck.


Oh yeah? so what model do you drive


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