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Multi-tiered football league

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Let me start off by saying that soccer is my number one sporting love. I know that will discredit my point of view to many of you, but I do also love the NFL/ American football very much. Now that you're aware of my bias, allow me to say what I wanted to express.


I think the NFL would benefit greatly from having multiple leagues/levels, with the NFL being akin to the the premier league in English soccer. One thing that has always bothered me about the NFL is that you are rewarded for playing poorly- with higher draft picks, easier schedule etc. This is contrary to the nature of competition imo. Losing/ failing should carry negative consequences, not positive ones. I know that parity is a focus of the NFL and that it has worked well in creating an environment where teams are closely matched and teams can turn things around quickly, but there is no drama, no struggle at the end of the year for teams that have had a poor season. They have nothing to play for. In fact, the opposite is true- they have reasons to lose.

If the NFL incorporated a secondary league by maybe dropping the 12 worst teams in the season to a secondary league (Just initially. Later you could promote/relegate fewer teams once the secondary league is established- maybe 4 per year.) it would really create a passion among teams fighting to stay in the top-flight. It would make things interesting from top to bottom throughout the season (in both leagues), and it would maintain competitive integrity for all games.

I imagine that I'm in the minority in this wish, but to me it would really make things exciting. If your team is unfortunate enough to be dropped into the lower league it would be incredibly exciting in the year they work out their promotion back to the top league in the NFL. I think there would just be more drama all around for everyone. The struggle at the top and the bottom means more excitement for all involved.

Anyone with me? (Echoes..... :P )

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The NFL and America in general are too lazy. A minor league might someday catch on (Doubt it) like they have in baseball, but really college is seen as the minor league. That's who we draft from. I would love to see each NFL team have a minor league farm team so that all the guys we see potential in, but can't keep on the roster, can have somewhere to go where we can still keep a hold of them and see if they really do have any potential. Would be great for finding diamonds in the rough.

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the NFL is an incredibly successful business...really no need to mess with it to the extent that you are proposing.

I like the idea of a junior league or a D league or similar idea that would focus on player development outside of the college core, and I bet they'd get some viewership too if you set them in smaller centers.

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Posted · Report post

two different sports don't need the same structure

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NFL is an inferior league and the USA is an inferior country. They'll just continue to exploit college athletes and the only focus of the game will be profits while the soccer leagues in Europe continue to cultivate great talent from around the world at young ages.

Messi's story is particularly moving:

[quote]At the age of 11, Messi was diagnosed with a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone_deficiency"]growth hormone deficiency[/url].[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi#cite_note-26"][27][/url][/sup] Local powerhouse [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_Atl%C3%A9tico_River_Plate"]River Plate[/url] showed interest in Messi's progress, but did not have enough money to pay for treatment for his condition, which cost $900 a month.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi#cite_note-mission-20"][21][/url][/sup] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carles_Rexach"]Carles Rexach[/url], the sporting director of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona"]FC Barcelona[/url], had been made aware of his talent as Messi had relatives in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lleida"]Lleida[/url] and Messi and his father were able to arrange a trial with the team.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi#cite_note-mission-20"][21][/url][/sup] Rexach, with no other paper at hand, offered Messi a contract written on a paper napkin.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi#cite_note-27"][28][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi#cite_note-fifa.com-28"][29][/url][/sup] Barcelona offered to pay for Messi's medical bills if he was willing to move to Spain. Messi and his father moved to Barcelona where Messi enrolled in the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Masia"]club's youth academy[/url].[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi#cite_note-Williams-24"][25][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi#cite_note-fifa.com-28"][29][/url][/sup][/quote]

Greatest soccer player in the world. If he was an American football player he'd have been left for dead.

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Posted · Report post

good thing he choose a pussy sport then...NFL has no room for pussies!!!!!!

come on man....pro soccer doesn't exploit players? with there multi million transfer fees etc....

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No league is perfect but the youth academies owned by soccer leagues are very impressive. I've always wondered why the NBA and NFL can't start similar successful programs. College football would be done away with if the NFL would invest the resources, imo. Sports are controlled by athletes and I think given the choice the best players would choose to join youth academies owned by various NFL clubs.

Instead of being told it's immoral to be paid for their talents, they would be coveted at a young age and rewarded.

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Posted · Report post

hmm...not sure I agree with you on that one...but ya never know. Education might have a wee part of that college ball experience...and it's massive money for the schools too. can't see college ball ever going away regardless of any junior programs

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Soccer is a great sport, and leagues like the EPL have great structure...but they still don't pull the same kind of revenue that the NFL does. I agree a multi-tiered structure would be GREAT for times who constantly hover below mediocrity...but it would ruin the NFL. The NFL would then have teams drafting players then trading them to the higher ranked teams. It would basically turn the NFL into MLB.

As always, it sounds great in theory but wouldn't work in execution.

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Here's all you need to know about soccer- a midget cripple can become the best player in the world. Good luck seeing that in the NFL.

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[quote name='Keith Moons Liver' timestamp='1350228073' post='1946036']
Here's all you need to know about soccer- a midget cripple can become the best player in the world. Good luck seeing that in the NFL.
[/quote]


I never understand the hatred for soccer by NFL fans. Perhaps it's an inferiority complex; knowing that the NFL will never reach the heights of popularity enjoyed by the beautiful game. If you love sport and athletic competition, it is easy to appreciate myriad sports, but I hear so much venom from NFL fans about that "pussy sport". lol Soccer players have more finesse and nuance in their abilities than most athletes in the world, and I for one enjoy watching their skills. The NFL/American football has many elements that make it an exciting sport, but to dismiss soccer is to bury your head in the sand like a frightened ostrich. Soccer is the most beloved sport on planet Earth, and by a [i][b]large [/b][/i]margin. Soccer is cherished around the world for a reason- it is a fantastic sport and in my opinion- the best of them all.

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guess that just means there are pussies in the world than we originally thought!!!

of course it's popular...what do you think 3rd world countries play? what do you need....a ball...and even if you don't have a ball, a rolled up sweater, a rock, anything...and you can play with 1 or 2 people. It only makes sense that more people play soccer than hockey.


that would be like comparing how many people play hockey in Canada compared to how many play in north Africa!

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If there were academies rather than relying on schools, the talent in the league would go up by a significant amount.

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[quote name='Hawk' timestamp='1350231953' post='1946065']
guess that just means there are pussies in the world than we originally thought!!!

[b]of course it's popular...what do you think 3rd world countries play? [/b]what do you need....a ball...and even if you don't have a ball, a rolled up sweater, a rock, anything...and you can play with 1 or 2 people. It only makes sense that more people play soccer than hockey.


that would be like comparing how many people play hockey in Canada compared to how many play in north Africa!
[/quote]


You're dismissing most of Europe, much of Asia, Austrailia, and much of North and South America where soccer is played and beloved in decidedly non-third-world places. The hatred is rooted in insecurity. Soccer will always be the world's sport. The NFL can never dream to achieve that status. It will [i][b]never [/b][/i]happen.

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how would you define the 'crappy teams?' you have a decent proposition in theory, but it just doesn't work. that's why there is arena football, the cfl, other minor league teams, and at one point, even the xfl.

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there is also college football to better prepare athletes to go to the nfl, unlike college soccer where only so many players might make it big time. you would essentially have 20 teams getting 2 first rounders every year, while those other 12 that are in the 'minors' will have no chance to get talent.

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[quote name='SpinTk' timestamp='1350256663' post='1946641']
how would you define the 'crappy teams?' you have a decent proposition in theory, but it just doesn't work. that's why there is arena football, the cfl, other minor league teams, and at one point, even the xfl.
[/quote]


They would defined by their records/ tie-breakers just like playoff tie-breakers. The worst teams would go down, the rest would stay up in the first year of the change. After that maybe 3-4 go down/up every year thereafter. It would amount to an NFL with 20 teams and an NFL league 2 with 12 teams.

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[quote name='iampantherman' timestamp='1350257136' post='1946654']


They would defined by their records/ tie-breakers just like playoff tie-breakers. The worst teams would go down, the rest would stay up in the first year of the change. After that maybe 3-4 go down/up every year thereafter. It would amount to an NFL with 20 teams and an NFL league 2 with 12 teams.
[/quote]

but that makes no sense, b/c teams have up and down years. being a panther fan, you should know that more than anything. what if we started your plan this year? teams like green bay, detroit, new orleans, dallas, cleveland, and kansas city would all be at risk of not being in the nfl based off of ONE YEAR. those are legendary teams. the nfl wouldn't even be a viable sport [$$$] anymore if just half those teams went down.

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It would certainly require a change in mentality on the part of fans. I'm not suggesting that league 2 would be non-NFL football, rather that it would be league 2 of NFL football. In one way it would provide more opportunity for success for teams and fans. Even if you find yourself in the 2nd tier of the NFL, you only have to make it into the top 3 or 4 of that league to be promoted back to the top tier, plus you have the possible "glory" of winning the lower league. Like I initially said though, I assume that I am in the minority, but I, for one, would love it if the NFL would split into a top and secondary league. I'm sure it won't happen, but it would be for fun to me anyway. I just really hate the incentive for poor performance in terms of draft, scheduling, etc. in the NFL. I guess some like parity, and it has its advantages, but it is really counter to the nature of competition. It's forced equality.

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[quote name='iampantherman' timestamp='1350242268' post='1946270']
You're dismissing most of Europe, much of Asia, Austrailia, and much of North and South America where soccer is played and beloved in decidedly non-third-world places. The hatred is rooted in insecurity. Soccer will always be the world's sport. The NFL can never dream to achieve that status. It will [i][b]never [/b][/i]happen.
[/quote]

I've been living in Australia for a couple years now and soccer is nowhere near as popular as the two rugby leagues and Australian Rules Football. I've met as many or people interested in NFL here as soccer (though I wouldn't necessarily say that's true for all of Australia, haven't been all over the entire continent...) Most of the soccer fans here are European transplants, whereas a lot of the NFL fans (or NFL-interested, if "fan" is a bit too strong of a word to describe them) are Australians who are interested in sports similar to their own.

As a disclaimer, I don't care for soccer at all. Never been interested, not when I lived in an Asian country for a couple of years where it was the dominant sport, not now, not ever. But I don't hate it, soccer players are certainly in better overall shape than football players. It just isn't as exciting a game to watch, not as complex and teamwork focused.

I agree with the previous poster about the reason for its popularity. It certainly seems to be rooted in the accessibility (all you need is a ball, and people from poorer countries will choose the obviously economical choice) and the effect of British (and European) colonialism. Most of these countries where soccer is the dominant sport were colonized by England, the Netherlands, Spain or France. The effects of that time spent under European rule continues to be very clear today, and soccer is a big example of that.

And much of Asia, South America and plenty of Europe [b]are[/b] third world countries. You mention North America, but the only part of North America where soccer is popular is Mexico...which is as close as North America gets to third world..

The spread of basketball is also testament to the "accessibility" reason. Basketball is becoming a very international sport too, and it's because all you need is a ball and a hoop.

In summary, soccer is not the dominant world sport because it is a superior sport...that's just ludicrous. The 3 main Australian sports are clearly superior to soccer in every way, combining the cardiovascular rigor and finesse of soccer with the physicality of NFL. I still prefer NFL, myself, by a large margin because A ) it's what I grew up liking, and B ) the rugbys and AFL still don't have the complexity and teamwork heavy nature of NFL.

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[quote name='JawnyBlaze' timestamp='1350356115' post='1947840']
As a disclaimer, I don't care for soccer at all.

[/quote]

That's obvious.

[quote name='JawnyBlaze' timestamp='1350356115' post='1947840']
It just isn't as exciting a game to watch, not as complex and teamwork focused.[/quote]

Then you must not have played it or really understand the sport. "Exciting" is subjective, but it is most definitely as teamwork focused as any other team sport available.

[quote name='JawnyBlaze' timestamp='1350356115' post='1947840']
And much of Asia, South America and plenty of Europe are third world countries. You mention North America, but the only part of North America where soccer is popular is Mexico...which is as close as North America gets to third world..[/quote]

[quote name='iampantherman' timestamp='1350242268' post='1946270']
You're dismissing [u][b]most [/b][/u]of Europe, [u][b]much [/b][/u]of Asia, Austrailia, and [u][b]much [/b][/u]of North and South America where soccer is played and beloved in decidedly non-third-world places. The hatred is rooted in insecurity. Soccer will always be the world's sport. The NFL can never dream to achieve that status. It will never happen.
[/quote]

Also, contrary to popular opinion, soccer is very popular in Canada and the US. The MLS is very competitive with the NBA and the NHL in terms of attendance here in the US! The typical NFL fan is oblivious to this fact however.

[url="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304741404575564463288685240.html"]Link[/url]

[quote name='JawnyBlaze' timestamp='1350356115' post='1947840']
[b]In summary, soccer is not the dominant world sport because it is a superior sport...that's just ludicrous[/b]. The 3 main Australian sports are [b]clearly superior to soccer in every way[/b], combining the cardiovascular rigor and finesse of soccer with the physicality of NFL. I still prefer NFL, myself, by a large margin because A ) it's what I grew up liking, and B ) the rugbys and AFL still don't have the complexity and teamwork heavy nature of NFL.
[/quote]

Who said that?!

I said:

[quote name='iampantherman' timestamp='1350231708' post='1946062']
Soccer is the most beloved sport on planet Earth, and by a large margin. Soccer is cherished around the world for a reason- it is a fantastic sport and[u][b] in my opinion- the best of them all.[/b][/u]
[/quote]


And lol at "The 3 main Australian sports are [b]clearly superior to soccer in every way"[/b]

It's your opinion, not objective fact.


In the end though, no matter what angle you look at it from soccer is the most popular sport on our planet. That's not opinion, that's FACT!

To put it another way. It is much more likely that one day in the future soccer becomes the #1 sport in America than it is that American football will ever become the #1 sport in the rest of the world. The NFL will never be truly embraced outside of the US. Soccer has a substantial passionate following in the US already, and has for a long time.

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I didn't mean to imply my opinion about the 4 types of football (3 Australian types and NFL) was fact, just my opinion. Admittedly I don't know soccer nearly as well as football, but I've watched my fair share and it seems FAR less teamwork dependent than football. Seems a lot more like basketball, where teamwork is necessary (passing, setting up for scoring plays, etc) but much less so than football.

[quote]
[url="http://www.carolinahuddle.com/boards/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=1947840"][img]http://www.carolinahuddle.com/boards/public/style_images/huddle/snapback.png[/img][/url]JawnyBlaze, on 16 October 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:


And much of Asia, South America and plenty of Europe are third world countries. You mention North America, but the only part of North America where soccer is popular is Mexico...which is as close as North America gets to third world..

[url="http://www.carolinahuddle.com/boards/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=1946270"][img]http://www.carolinahuddle.com/boards/public/style_images/huddle/snapback.png[/img][/url]iampantherman, on 15 October 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

You're dismissing [u][b]most [/b][/u]of Europe, [u][b]much [/b][/u]of Asia, Austrailia, and [u][b]much [/b][/u]of North and South America where soccer is played and beloved in decidedly [u][b]non-third-world places[/b][/u]. The hatred is rooted in insecurity. Soccer will always be the world's sport. The NFL can never dream to achieve that status. It will never happen.
[/quote]

You're saying those places aren't third world places, I'm saying the a lot places mentioned where soccer is played and beloved are third world places. Maybe we're just differing on the term "third world", and maybe that's a miscommunication on my part. I'm not limiting the places I'm talking about to places like Somalia, DRC and Ethiopia. In the strictest sense, there's not many third world countries left.

I was referring to places like, in Asia: Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, Burma, Cambodia, Korea, etc places that would technically be called "developing" nations, not necessarily "third world". The logic used doesn't change, they're still poor countries where economical limitations can be used as a reason for the popularity for simpler sports like soccer and basketball. The two "first world" countries in Asia, China and Japan, soccer is less popular than the ones I just mentioned. In Japan, baseball is the most popular sport (with soccer #2, sumo #3, golf #4). In China, I couldn't find actual rankings, but by my personal experience (and without going into much detail, I'm more knowledgeable about China than your average person) ping pong and basketball are more popular in China than soccer.

In Australia, soccer is behind Rugby Union, Rugby League, Australian Rules Football, cricket and possibly even NFL (that one might be a stretch though, just going off my personal observations on that one).

In South America, pretty much every country falls into the "second" or "third" world status.

Only Europe has first world countries where soccer is the dominant sport. And much of Europe is still second or third world...so the point in all of this is that no one is [quote]dismissing most of Europe, much of Asia, Austrailia, and much of North and South America where soccer is played and beloved in [b]decidedly non-third-world places[/b].[/quote], we're referring to much of Europe, Asia and South America which ARE third world (or at least decidedly non-first-world) places.

I'm not trying to argue football will ever overtake soccer as the international sport, I'm just trying to explain
[quote]Soccer is the most beloved sport on planet Earth, and by a [i][b]large [/b][/i]margin.[/quote] as a result of European influence and economic convenience, not because [quote]Soccer is cherished around the world for a reason- it is a fantastic sport and in my opinion- the best of them all.[/quote] Dismissing soccer isn't derived from some feeling of insecurity, especially backed by the evidence to that opinion being "the world popularity" of soccer. The world popularity of soccer has easy to see explanations that have no impact on a first world country that has long since left our European influences behind...such as the good ol' USA (and Australia too a lesser degree in the second part). Therein lies the reason behind American indifference to soccer. Not insecurity.

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Posted · Report post

Relegating teams would never, ever work in the NFL and this country. There is too much money at stake.

Not knocking your idea though because I think at its core it's a good idea it just would never happen here.

Can u imagine the type of posts here if the panthers were about to be relegated to the CFL because they've sucked recently.

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