94 replies to this topic

[ladypanther]

I couldn't agree more.

Tell Sarena Williams that she cant actually hit more than a dozen balls a week in practice and see how quickly her dominance falls off. Tackling is like any other skill in the game, it needs to be practiced at full speed or the techniques needed begin to deteriorate. I think in the long run the limits are going to have the opposite of their intended effect only instead of guys getting hurt in practice or not recovering between games the increase in injury will come during games as poor technique is replace by out of control brute force.

My first reaction to this......all the other teams are playing with the same restrictions.

[XClown1986]

The scout thing is very interesting. Had not heard that before. They are off to a good start.

I like your optimism in the last paragraph. To keep from losing this fanbase...some of this improvement needs to come in the Cowboys game.

I honestly didn't know until today when Cat Scratch Reader released this:

http://www.catscratchreader.com/2012/10/12/3492794/carolina-panthers-2011-draft-revisiting-the-class

I'm optimistic, but I'm losing patience as well. Definitely need to see something tangible in the Cowboys game to hold on to.

[Proudiddy]

Good post and great perspective LP.

I'm sure you at times feel I'm overly negative, especially in the game chat LP, but I'd imagine you get me by now.

I love this team just as I love a member of my family. For better or for worse, they are a part of me... So, I take it hard when we suck because I feel it is a reflection on me. Sometimes joking is the best way to deal with disappointment or hurt. Sometimes, just spouting off the worst outcome possible before each play lessens the pain when we fail.

That being said, just as you said there are games that Rivera can't be held responsible for, there are SEVERAL that decisions he made DID directly affect the outcome negatively for us.

As CRA said, he has proven to be a poor game manager. I still have no idea how the power dynamics work between he and the coordinators but there is more than enough evidence to suggest he gives them free reign during games and simply handles the "head coaching" decisions (go for it or punt, timeout, etc.). This isn't good. Especially considering if this is the case, he has struggled the most in those few responsibilities he has.

Last year I hated it, but I had to chalk it up as him learning on the job - despite not remembering another rookie HC doing anything nearly as stupid - the wasted timeouts before halftime last year that resulted in us not getting a FG before half in one game stands out. He took full blame for that.

The "part of the plan" approach before half against the Falcons this year...

Not going for the win instead of trying not to lose each game. And the 4th down bootleg we ran against the Hawks was a horrible decision. A coach should know the situation and what are his odds/percentages. In 4th and 1 situations, are conversion rate has been remarkable with Cam at QB. So the punt against the Falcons and then allowing Chud to "get cute" against the Hawks on 4th and 1 or 4th and goal at the 1 were just retarded and show a complete lack of understanding of the situation and personnel.

Additionally, all of the "failures" people are pinning on our personnel are irrational in my mind because it all goes back to coaching. Yes, we can subscribe to the old adage, "it's about the Joes, not the Xs and Os," or however it goes. But, IMO, are "Joes" would rank about midway up the ranking in terms of talent fielded across the board and averaged out. Offensively, we'd be top half of the league... So, the amount of failures we are experiencing are a direct result of coaching, or lack thereof. Too many bad playcalls, no rhythm, not knowing the situation or respecting it, and putting our players in a position to fail all have resulted in just that... Failure.

I hate that it has already come to this because I naturally pulled for Rivera for multiple reasons I've discussed before AND simply b/c he was our HC. But, he has made it painfully obvious that he is outmatched every week. It sucks to have already come to this realization after such a short amount of time, but at least we know and are able to move forward sooner rather than later. I have to approach the rest of the season believing he is not the guy... If he can miraculously turn it around and lead us on a win streak that leaves us at 7 wins or better, I may reconsider, but I highly doubt it.

He seems like a great guy... And admirable human being... Just not a very good coach.

[rayzor]

It sucks to have already come to this realization after such a short amount of time, but at least we know and are able to move forward sooner rather than later.

here's the dilemma you have with this mindset....you may be sure of this and are ready to move on "sooner rather than later", but as much as people might call for it i hope you realize that rivera won't be going anywhere for another 2-3 years.

there is no "moving forward" at the moment.

what you do with that is up to you and you alone. you might be better off trying to be more open minded and giving him more time because the alternate is for you to spend the duration of rivera's tenure pissed off.


it's all a matter of perspective.

[ladypanther]

Good post and great perspective LP.


I hate that it has already come to this because I naturally pulled for Rivera for multiple reasons I've discussed before AND simply b/c he was our HC. But, he has made it painfully obvious that he is outmatched every week. It sucks to have already come to this realization after such a short amount of time, but at least we know and are able to move forward sooner rather than later. I have to approach the rest of the season believing he is not the guy... If he can miraculously turn it around and lead us on a win streak that leaves us at 7 wins or better, I may reconsider, but I highly doubt it.

He seems like a great guy... And admirable human being... Just not a very good coach.

First....thanks for the nice comment.

I agree Rivera has made many mistakes. I may be where you are after the next game. I am willing to give him 1 more game before I get there. His ability to assess and make the necessary corrections is the test. He obviously did that has a D coordinator. The bye week is his chance to prove he has it as a head coach. I hope it is his moment. It would be really cool to do it against the Cowboys.

[Proudiddy]

here's the dilemma you have with this mindset....you may be sure of this and are ready to move on "sooner rather than later", but as much as people might call for it i hope you realize that rivera won't be going anywhere for another 2-3 years.

there is no "moving forward" at the moment.

what you do with that is up to you and you alone. you might be better off trying to be more open minded and giving him more time because the alternate is for you to spend the duration of rivera's tenure pissed off.


it's all a matter of perspective.

Sadly, I've already relegated myself to this. I can even understand the "three-year" plan approach with any head coach. But, I really do feel he has shown that he's in over his head to a degree that suggests there is no significant improvement possible.

Regardless, as I said in the above post, I'm stuck with this team win or lose. I love them... I just wish I was stuck with more winning than losing.

I really hope he does prove me wrong, but I doubt he will. And I was hoping for the "sooner rather than later" outcome in seeing change because for all the good that Foxy did here, once it went bad and we all realized it, management's handling of the situation only made it worse and a more sour experience for us as the fans.

[raleigh-panther]

My issue is not that our expectations of this team and it's 23 year old QB were not realistic.

My issue is that time and time again, when it mattered, the Panthers eitther did not compete or have looked totally unprepared to play and it does not matter the coach or the season.

There are teams this year with more injuries to starters and more legitimate reasons to perform poorly than they do.

There are teams with far less talent than their opponents that find passion even if for a night to upset an opponent.

Not the Panthers. When is the last time the Panthers upset anyone? They have made a habit as an organization of making bottom feeders look like HOF candidates.

I said it before, it's not that they lose it is how they lose and it never changes.

Not trying to be a 'debbide downer' here but I will not make excuses anymore. They are a bad team and if organizations are judged as bad based on wins and loses, they are a bad organization.

Will I be at the game next Sunday against the Cowboys and staying over dropping more money in Charlotte, yes, I will be; but, I have come to terms with myself like a few other PSL owners that 15 years, 11 of which are mediocre is just not enough to buy PSLs again.

I don't ask much. I just ask for millionaire professional football players to look like Garner HS could not beat them.

[ForMac]

Are we mathematically eliminated from the playoffs? A: No, SUPERBOWL!

[DeeJay]

Looking back at the 2012 draft class our defense so far has some nice additions. Luke,Alexander,

2013 #1 Cornerback
rest of the picks = offense.

We need to win 11 straight

[Achilles]

Can we all just admit that we are still rebuilding after the 2010 dismantling of the John Fox era teams. We lost more than just 8-9 starters. We lost on-field leadership. These new guys are potentially more talented than past teams, but they are so inexperienced that essentially, we can't close out games in which we lead.

Cam has all the talent in the world, and a HUGE personality...but he's simply not ready to be a player leader. Until he is ready...there will be something missing on this offense. Same goes for Kuechly. He is the future at MLB for sure, but he's not an on field leader. I for one really like Norman, but again, he's too young to be a team leader. Silatolu and Bell...same story.

Likewise, for whatever reason, I don't see energy and passion from: Gross, Kalil (now IR), Smitty, Beason, Godfrey, Gamble, D-Lo, Etc.

None of these players has seemed to take the reigns and help shape this team's identity.

Rivera is partially to blame for this because any good coach knows that he has to delegate some leadership responsibilities to the players. I don't see this happening and I think it could be an important ingredient that this team is missing.

Player leadership is essential for a winning organization. Besides the obvious failings of the GM/HC, OC, and DC, this issue is potentially partly to blame for our dismal showing.

Maybe we could have gotten up off the mat after that heartbreaking loss to ATL with some stronger player leadership, instead it seemed to be the nail in the coffin for this team's confidence.

[Gin and Juice]

This team needs to learn how to win from top to bottom! Screw Hurney, I would love to see him go, but that just means we get to start all over again and I'm not so sure we need that!

This team is at a pivotal moment and has been for a few weeks, they need a no excuses WIN! Had their chance at Atlanta, blew it! Had their chance with Seattle and blew it! LadyPanther, you are spot on with wanting one more week! If the team cannot regroup and get what it needs against a mediocre Cowboys squad then we are DONE! This team has lost in every way possible from coaching going stupid to players making critical mistakes and that's fine.......growing pains! But here we are with some recollection time and butthurt healing time, but in 8 days it is a must win situation in order to have something to build on! We lose? Then the team needs to move on and JR needs to make plans to put a new regime in place! I have no clue who, but for the sake of all careers involved, this team would have to go in a new direction!

This team as a whole needs some positives or everybody is going to stop caring!

[Roger Dorn]

W;DR

[Marguide]

Ladypanther, I agree with others regarding the juvenile nature of some of the posters here. You just have to feel sorry for them. A woman walks into a room or ventures into a thread, and they are so socially deficient that all they can say is show us your boobs or fix me a sandwich.

They can't get a date or find a partner and then wonder why.

Hopefully you understand the majority of us do not support or condone this kind of immaturity.

[iamhubby1]

Partly because of the way last year unfolded. Slow start, then showing improvement. The Offense, especially Cam being electric. Finishing strong. There was great optimism headed into this year. The expectations were through the roof.

So far, those expectations have not come close to being met. And a lot of folks are extremely disappointed. To the point of disowning the Panthers all together. Which is just silly if you think about it. Giving up on a team you root for? Kinda counter-productive if you ask me.

That said. Very few teams win without a franchise QB. We have ours, now all we need is for him to learn to win.

Go ahead and give up. Me? I am too damn excited about the future to care where you are. I am not letting a bad start diminish my giddy over this team. The future is brighter than anytime in Panther history. And I am just glad to be along for the ride.

If you actually believe this year is as good as Cam is going to be? You are not a realist, you are dilusional.
If you actually believe the D and ST have not improved. You are not a realist, you are just not paying attention.
If you actually believe this team, as is, is not capable of winning. You are not a realist, you are a meme.
If you actually believe this team is not headed for greatness. Why are you here?

Ok, that's enough for now. If you are with me? Great. If not? Great.