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We have a winner here.

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[b]"Replacing Kasay with Mare might have been the wrong move, but moving on from Kasay was the right move. we just picked the wrong guy. people are arguing that replacing Fox with Rivera was the wrong move. i would say moving on Fox was absolutely the right thing to do. whether Rivera was the right guy to replace him with or not is still up for debate, imo. Replacing Martin was the right thing to do. Nakamura might have been the wrong one to do it with, tho."[/b]

This.
Didn't matter who replaced John Kasay, the fanbase was going to boo and piss on no matter who it was. Hell, the Panthers could have brought Jan Stenerud in and the fans would still cry themselves to sleep every night.

Same with Fox in the opposite manner. Most of the fanbase was ready for Fox to go and it likely mattered little who it was, as long as the fans were happy.... how happy are they now?

Sherrod Martin? How about coaching the guy into the position? How about doing something to help the guy improve? He was a rookie last season- does anyone relaize just how hard it is to play safety in this league? Let alone as a rookie?

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Replace thread title with "We want a winner here"

Continue discussion.

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[quote name='Anybodyhome' timestamp='1350073363' post='1944909']Sherrod Martin? How about coaching the guy into the position? How about doing something to help the guy improve? He was a rookie last season- does anyone relaize just how hard it is to play safety in this league? Let alone as a rookie?
[/quote]

Uh... Martin was not a rookie last year. He was a 3 year vet. He's had 3 years to learn the position, and still failed to grasp some of the most basic concepts of being a safety.

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On paper we need to fill

RT
WR
DT
DE
CB
FS
SS

Not exactly filled with talent.

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We need a coach like coughlin. Someone to instill order.

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we do need an infusion of talent, but the good news is we have a nucleus of young and extremely talented players to build around. that's how you start rebuilding a franchise from the ground up.

now we just need to find the right guys to plug in.

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[quote name='PhillyB' timestamp='1350074576' post='1944934']
we do need an infusion of talent, but the good news is we have a nucleus of young and extremely talented players to build around. that's how you start rebuilding a franchise from the ground up.

now we just need to find the right guys to plug in.
[/quote]

we need to get bulky and athletic on defense with a legitimate WR talent at the least on the offensive side. Smitty is one of our best players of all time but its clear he's slowed down a bit

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[quote name='Brooklyn Bully' timestamp='1350061056' post='1944747']
The team is not as good as you think it is... even on paper. The D-line is not good, the DBs are not good, two of our LBs are coming off injury, we don't run it like we used to, the O-line is average, our WRs are average at best after Smitty. Not too sure what paper you've been reading, but it obviously was printed in Carolina blue ink.
[/quote]

THIS is exactly the kind of team breakdown that I did NOT see in abundance in the preseason. It was more like "we got Luke in case TD doesn't work out." "We got plenty of wide receivers and do not need to consider any of the big name free agents for the money." "Our pass rush is going to be improved enough so that it may shelter our rookie corner if he beats out Mun and Hogan."

This is what I was fishing for and it proves the point behind a lot of my posts the last couple weeks. When we lose NOW all of a sudden our players are garbage or below average and whatever.

Who the hell have you seen play to their potential this year YET? The list is short if you can even come up with the first name to start it. And I am not talking about what I believe their potential to be or what some guru says or what it says on the back of their rookie Topps. I am basing this off of what I have seen these guys do. I give everyone a sub-par grade on effort thus far. To me that is much worse than a sub-par grade by some talent scout or draft analyst. You lose but bust yer ass and play like we all have seen you play before, fine. That's a whole other bag of chips to choke down in the loser's lounge. But you get beat and look like you are going through the motions, not mentally prepared, not confident, not buying in to the program, or just plain half-assing all over the place then you get the vitriol. And you deserve it.

Not one of us in here can say that person is a good fan or a bad fan. Everybody picks up on different things. I'm not pissed because we are losing. I'm disgusted because we have not shown up for the season yet. A season that I still believe HAD a lot of promise.

The catch 22 though now is that when we see them sputter to life (longshot) the only thing we will be able to say is "where the f-ck where you clowns 5-8-13 weeks ago?" These guys will not grow together, mesh, or bond throughout this season. They did that last season and at camp. They have had time for all that emotional garbage. THIS was the year to get back into the playoffs. THIS F-CKING YEAR RIGHT HERE!

The one thing I can say for sure is that the players, coaches, office, and any fans that agree somewhat with the sentiment explained here will all be saying the same thing at the end of this season if they are not saying it already. "oh what could have, should have been"
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[quote name='rayzor' timestamp='1350067440' post='1944831']

we just picked the wrong guy. .
[/quote]


Well rayzor, you have just found the one thing the Panthers can do consistently well...be it FA or draft.

...and that, is the difference between the Panthers and all losing organizations and the winning ones.

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Whats bizarre to me, is in the past Ive been one of the most vocal people on this board in regards to management and ownership decisions. But this year man, its strange, Im really pissed off with a lot of our players. Im more dissapointed in them right now than management although the FO still deserves all the criticism they get. [b]Our guys have got to fuging play better. POINT BLANK. And Im talking bout right now, not Week 12 or 13 when we're eliminated from playoff contention and guys are just playing no pressure football. But RIGHT NOW[/b]. The point of having veterans is LEADERSHIP, and maybe in the locker room its prevelant, but on the field I dont see it. Our OC hasnt done us any favors in 2012, but that doesnt excuse guys from dropping passes, fumbling the ball. On D its missed tackles, blown assignments, guys taking bad angles in pass protection. We are the Bad News Bears right now, and its pathetic. If guys aint gonna step up, they need to go, and lets get some guys in here who are hungry and can get the job done. It aint called [b]N[/b]ot [b]F[/b]or [b]L[/b]ong for nothing.
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I think Martin had a decent(not spectacular) game last week, no? I think we should at least give him a start and see how he holds up, no reason not to.. The guy has talent, he just needs to show it on a more consistent basis, I say give him one more shot, considering he had a good preseason as well. Just my 2 cents.

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I think most people underestimate how much poor coaching and playcalling can hamper and impede a good team from looking good.

If you look at the Pats roster, tell me position to position where they are better than us in terms of pure TALENT. Not football IQ, execution, or anything else outside of talent and ability.

Coaching, coaching, coaching... Year after year we fail to start fast and look prepared in general.

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