Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Jason Cole Defends Cam Against Vince Young Comparisons


  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#41 Marguide

Marguide

    South of the Border

  • Joined: 13-May 10
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 5,748
  • Reputation: 2,344
HUDDLER

Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:00 PM

No, they're not really that different at all. They're both based on negative racial stereotypes. They're based on the stereotype that white guys aren't athletic enough to play CB or RB and they're based on the stereotype that black guys aren't smart enough to play QB. They're both negative, just one is physical and one is mental. That's really the only difference.


Here's where I think the difference lies...white players are often characterized as less athletic than black players. It is a negative, that is true, but compare that to black players, especially QB's. Too often, when they struggle it is attributed to a fault in their character, as opposed to what their bodies can do.

Whether it's McNabb getting blasted for a lack of courage or Cam taking heat for not acting "properly" when he is coming off a loss, it is a different kind of attack than is typical with white players. Sure, there are outliers on both sides, like character flawed Ryan Leaf or Jeff George or even Cutler, but character attacks seem to come much easier when dissecting the game of black QB's.

In Cam's case, the guy has done nothing since he joined the league to warrant the character attacks. He hasn't yelled at his coaches or the officials. He hasn't pushed one of his teammates or a cameraman. He hasn't publicly called out a teammate. He has done none of that (and all the above are real things that high profile white QB's have done). So ask yourself the question, why him? Why is he the guy that gets singled out?

#42 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • posts: 27,108
  • Reputation: 5,282
Moderators

Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:42 AM

Again, because Cam didn't fail when entering the league. He did well. So did Vince Young. They both then struggled with their emotions in their 2nd year.

If the comparison was to Jamarcus Russell, I'd agree with you. But Vince Young's situation was very similar to Cam's. It's now just about how he deals with it from here.


Newton's emotions are no different than when he rewrote the record book last year...

VY and Cam have very little in common

#43 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • posts: 27,108
  • Reputation: 5,282
Moderators

Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:49 AM

I'd say Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck, and Jake Locker have similar skill sets and they are white.


I wouldn't. They all 3 have mobility though....

#44 Squirrel

Squirrel

    Drink a beer and relax

  • Joined: 01-December 08
  • posts: 13,392
  • Reputation: 1,144
SUPPORTER

Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:16 AM

Here is a major problem with black qb's coming into the league. Its not their fault but more on the system in college. Most are used to be duel threats and never taught how to play in a pro system offense. Their athletisiam actually hurts their development. I have seen it over and over. Great qb in college but can't cut it in then nfl. Or great college qb but made wr because he never learned the pro system or given the chance. Cam right now on the same road. He needs to sit in the pocket and play qb not rb.

#45 Originalman

Originalman

    Junior Member

  • Joined: 30-October 11
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 102
  • Reputation: 20
HUDDLER

Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:47 AM

Here is a major problem with black qb's coming into the league. Its not their fault but more on the system in college. Most are used to be duel threats and never taught how to play in a pro system offense. Their athletisiam actually hurts their development. I have seen it over and over. Great qb in college but can't cut it in then nfl. Or great college qb but made wr because he never learned the pro system or given the chance. Cam right now on the same road. He needs to sit in the pocket and play qb not rb.


But how can you sit in the pocket if your coach is calling spread option plays. I have seen black QBs who played from the pocket in college get called out on draft day because they were slow and weren't mobile. I remember coach Prince at Kansas State saying that he had to have Freeman show off his running skills in games because the NFL scouts thought he wasn't mobile enough and that was a negative.

It seems as though if these black QB aren't able to be dual threats, do amazing physical feats and be super human on the field NFL teams have no need for them to start. If all they can do is stand back there and pass the hell with it.....basically they feel they can get a white QB to do that.

#46 Originalman

Originalman

    Junior Member

  • Joined: 30-October 11
  • PipPipPipPip
  • posts: 102
  • Reputation: 20
HUDDLER

Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:52 AM

Here's where I think the difference lies...white players are often characterized as less athletic than black players. It is a negative, that is true, but compare that to black players, especially QB's. Too often, when they struggle it is attributed to a fault in their character, as opposed to what their bodies can do.

Whether it's McNabb getting blasted for a lack of courage or Cam taking heat for not acting "properly" when he is coming off a loss, it is a different kind of attack than is typical with white players. Sure, there are outliers on both sides, like character flawed Ryan Leaf or Jeff George or even Cutler, but character attacks seem to come much easier when dissecting the game of black QB's.

In Cam's case, the guy has done nothing since he joined the league to warrant the character attacks. He hasn't yelled at his coaches or the officials. He hasn't pushed one of his teammates or a cameraman. He hasn't publicly called out a teammate. He has done none of that (and all the above are real things that high profile white QB's have done). So ask yourself the question, why him? Why is he the guy that gets singled out?


Well said. Here is a question to ask.....has there ever been a black QB in the league where the media and fans didn't question his intelligence and work ethic? The answer is pretty much none. For years Philly fans and media questioned ability to read defenses yet he rarely threw ints and took teams with trash at WR deep in the playoffs year after year. Often times being a one man wrecking crew on the offensive end.

#47 mwright350

mwright350

    Thy Jimmies shall be Rustled

  • Joined: 24-November 08
  • posts: 1,688
  • Reputation: 357
  • LocationChina Grove, NC
SUPPORTER

Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:30 AM

There's an element of Cam being singled out because societally we like to see success turn to failure. We don't like to admit it but a lot of us actively hate success. It can't be ignored.

Cam had meteoric success at Auburn with just one year under his belt and, in the midst of more than one scandal (right or wrong), came into the NFL and had the same meteoric rise to individual success. People single him out, dissect everything he does, and cheer for him to do badly for the same reason people who had no opinion on Tom Brady prior to all the winning want to see him do badly. Insert any other public figure who had a lot of early success and drew national ire for the same comparison. Now in Cam's case they can latch onto the pouting (right or wrong) and they can latch onto the performance drop (whether it's all his fault or not) and they have a story.

Everyone knew that when we drafted a national figure who wanted to stay a national figure this was coming. We knew it all last year when people were singing "woooah Cam" during highlights. We damn sure knew it was coming when elements of his personality make such convenient targets. The only thing that matters now is if Cam will succeed in the face of people wanting him to fail until the pressure wanes.

I think he will.

*edit*

And just for the record I'm not defending anyone. I think attacking a 23 year old kid like the media is is wrong no matter who they are attacking. I just try to be level headed about the whole thing.

#48 King Taharqa

King Taharqa

    The Panthers Quarterback

  • Joined: 25-November 08
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • posts: 8,774
  • Reputation: 322
  • LocationBobcat Country
HUDDLER

Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:57 AM

It seems as though if these black QB aren't able to be dual threats, do amazing physical feats and be super human on the field NFL teams have no need for them to start. If all they can do is stand back there and pass the hell with it.....basically they feel they can get a white QB to do that.


Which pretty much explains why there arent that many black backups in the league. Either you're "great" or you "arent a QB". Meanwhile #1 bust David Carr is still collecting checks in the league 10 years later even though he doesnt have a winning record or ever led a team to anything. Matt Leinart who's done nothing in the NFL is employed, but Vince Young from the same draft with a better career isnt. LOL. And I guarantee Leinart flopping wont hurt Matt Barkley's chances of being a top pick. You wont see the media or fans hold Leinart flopping against him. He will be judged as an individual.

#49 Squirrel

Squirrel

    Drink a beer and relax

  • Joined: 01-December 08
  • posts: 13,392
  • Reputation: 1,144
SUPPORTER

Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:03 AM

But KT you're missing something. The first qb selected in 2013 will be black.

#50 Squirrel

Squirrel

    Drink a beer and relax

  • Joined: 01-December 08
  • posts: 13,392
  • Reputation: 1,144
SUPPORTER

Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:13 AM

But how can you sit in the pocket if your coach is calling spread option plays. I have seen black QBs who played from the pocket in college get called out on draft day because they were slow and weren't mobile. I remember coach Prince at Kansas State saying that he had to have Freeman show off his running skills in games because the NFL scouts thought he wasn't mobile enough and that was a negative.

It seems as though if these black QB aren't able to be dual threats, do amazing physical feats and be super human on the field NFL teams have no need for them to start. If all they can do is stand back there and pass the hell with it.....basically they feel they can get a white QB to do that.


That is the poblem that and coaches needing to win now in college. Look at The Golden Calf of Bristol mobile qb but can't pass to save his life. If he was black he wouldn't have been drafted as a qb. He would have been converted to a te. But a player coming out of college can dictate what position he is being drafted for. White did it a lot of teams wanted him to come in as wr.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users