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What does God really say on the shape of the world? (From the Biblical Perspective)

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I believe in god because I don't really trust those that don't. Its easier to not believe because theres no responsibility. Theres no god to answer to and that means the consequences are meaningless. for those who don't believe, imagine sandusky had never been caught in this life. he would have gotten away with a clear conscience, while ruining all those kids lives. and though he was caught there are probably 10 who haven't. And maybe they don't believe in sin either. maybe they see no reason to fear the consequences of thier actions. So your kids are fair game to a guy like that. as odd as it may sound to some of you...., I think believing in god keeps you grounded.

I knew when I noticed this boldface moron posted in the thread there'd be some stupid poo about to go down.

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It teaches some good lessons, but teaches far more terrible, absolutely immoral lessons.

And this is what gets me about the people like OP; young Earth creationists who insist we take the Bible literally, when it's full of stuff like this:

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekelsof silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."

If you think we should take the Bible literally, why do we only take some parts literally, but don't think people should be stoned to death for minor things anymore?

You brought up some interesting things, but left out a lot as well. Firstly, you have to look at the translations of the Bible. The King James version takes out some meaning of the original language, and even adds a couple of things as well.

Secondly and most importantly, do you have an understanding on what the Bible says about slavery? First look at how God created us. Where was Adam's slave, if God intended for men to have slaves? Don't you think God would have created a slave for Adam? This tells me the only persons who wanted slaves, were mankind. God allowed for Israel to have slaves, but He made rules for slavery to ensure they wouldn't abuse people. One of those rules were, you couldn't kidnap a person to make him a slave. Anyone who did that, were automatically put to death, and the slave would be set free. With that in mind, all those who were involve in the african slave trade for instance, would have been put to death according to the laws God gave. Next, if you injured a slave to where he couldn't work, that slave was to be set free. For instance, if you hurt their hand, they would be set free for account of their hand. Eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, ear for ear, if the master injured his/her slave, that slave would be set free. (All slaves would have been those who sold themselves into slavery, or prisoners of war according to how God governed slavery)

When it comes to the virgin who was rape, the punishment on the rapist was that he marry the one he raped and take care of her for the rest of his life and beyond depening on his wealth status. Is that a conventional punishment? Concerning how society was back then, for instance no one had the romantic idea we have today about finding someone we love, it was the optimal thing to do. Most men and women back then didn't marry for romance, but for other things, particularly status. The punishment was to keep a rapist from raping, and it probably worked. If someone was raped, it is insured they will be taken care of no matter what, that was the focus of the judgment.

Of course there is a lot more that the Bible has said on these matters. Limiting them to a couple of quotes is misleading to the extreme.

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You brought up some interesting things, but left out a lot as well. Firstly, you have to look at the translations of the Bible. The King James version takes out some meaning of the original language, and even adds a couple of things as well.

Well it's good to take it literally then, I guess. What could possibly go wrong?

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I believe in god because I don't really trust those that don't. Its easier to not believe because theres no responsibility. Theres no god to answer to and that means the consequences are meaningless. for those who don't believe, imagine sandusky had never been caught in this life. he would have gotten away with a clear conscience, while ruining all those kids lives. and though he was caught there are probably 10 who haven't. And maybe they don't believe in sin either. maybe they see no reason to fear the consequences of thier actions. So your kids are fair game to a guy like that. as odd as it may sound to some of you...., I think believing in god keeps you grounded.

Ok so i'm trying to understand this...you're saying that those who believe in god will act like a decent human being strictly because they know they will be punished by this higher authoritative entity you describe, if they act in sin?

I myself believe in source as well...more than likely in a different way than you do though...however i think its a dangerous and ignorant stretch to assume that all those who do not believe therefore have no moral code...wouldnt you agree?

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I believe in god because I don't really trust those that don't. Its easier to not believe because theres no responsibility. Theres no god to answer to and that means the consequences are meaningless. for those who don't believe, imagine sandusky had never been caught in this life. he would have gotten away with a clear conscience, while ruining all those kids lives. and though he was caught there are probably 10 who haven't. And maybe they don't believe in sin either. maybe they see no reason to fear the consequences of thier actions. So your kids are fair game to a guy like that. as odd as it may sound to some of you...., I think believing in god keeps you grounded.

Then why are our prisons full of Christians? Only 0.21% of American prison inmates are atheists. Sounds like you have it completely backwards. People who don't believe in a deity actually have to take responsibility for their own lives.

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Then why are our prisons full of Christians? Only 0.21% of American prison inmates are atheists. Sounds like you have it completely backwards. People who don't believe in a deity actually have to take responsibility for their own lives.

Not trying to argue against your point or anything, but I wonder how many inmates turn to god and christianity during their terms of incarceration...i'm willing to bet its a good portion.

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As a person who grew up in a very traditional Lutheran family in SC, I know how strong some people are in their beliefs and I respect that. However, I don't understand how hard it is for some to just "zoom out" from an unbiased perspective and look at how one's own religious identity is pretty much determined geographically. Why was I a Christian when I grew up? Because my parents were Christians and that's what they taught me to believe. Had I grown up in the Middle East, I most likely would've been raised Muslim. I don't know the exact number of religions out there in the world (too lazy to google lol), but I know there's a bunch. Is it that hard to be TRULY honest with yourself, and see how many conflict with each other? What makes yours more true than the others?

IMO, I see life as an experience. A chance to learn and see what this universe has to offer, be it good or bad. And I'm comfortable with saying "I don't know how I got here or what happens when I leave." But I'm sure as hell gonna try to make this place better through my own actions, and hopefully I can learn some stuff in the process.

I will never judge another person's views because I haven't experienced the same reality they have. It just pains me sometimes to see the chance to discover, learn, and improve one's self and the world around them, squandered by willful ignorance. (and I'm not putting you into that category Matthias. I appreciate the way you've discussed this whole matter. Can't remember the last time I witnessed a semi-calm religious debate lol)

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The sun was stopped from his perspective. It's like people today who say they want to see the sun set, are they criticized for saying such tripe? So from the people's perspective, and if that occurred today, from our perspective, the sun stayed in the same spot in the sky. Also worth noting, whether the earth orbits around the sun (and of course we know it does) or the sun orbits around the earth, neither determines the position of the sun in the sky. That is determined by the earth's rotation on it's axis. With that in mind, it ultimately says nothing on the sun going around the earth or vice versa.

Nope, it says nothing about "his perspective". Besides, it's supposed to be the "word of God" is it not? Did god not know that it was the Earth that stopped & not the sun? (according to the story.)

Also, if the Sun did orbit around the Earth, that would indeed determine the position of the sun in the sky.

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I believe in god because I don't really trust those that don't. Its easier to not believe because theres no responsibility. Theres no god to answer to and that means the consequences are meaningless. for those who don't believe, imagine sandusky had never been caught in this life. he would have gotten away with a clear conscience, while ruining all those kids lives. and though he was caught there are probably 10 who haven't. And maybe they don't believe in sin either. maybe they see no reason to fear the consequences of thier actions. So your kids are fair game to a guy like that. as odd as it may sound to some of you...., I think believing in god keeps you grounded.

So you believe in God because he will punish people like Sandusky after a lifetime of abusing children and getting away with it. At the same time you will find some way to excuse this "just" being for not stopping said abuse in the first place...

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God the personification isn't real, and the devil is just the personification of man's refusal to be responsible.

-Bronn 2012

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As a person who grew up in a very traditional Lutheran family in SC, I know how strong some people are in their beliefs and I respect that. However, I don't understand how hard it is for some to just "zoom out" from an unbiased perspective and look at how one's own religious identity is pretty much determined geographically. Why was I a Christian when I grew up? Because my parents were Christians and that's what they taught me to believe. Had I grown up in the Middle East, I most likely would've been raised Muslim. I don't know the exact number of religions out there in the world (too lazy to google lol), but I know there's a bunch. Is it that hard to be TRULY honest with yourself, and see how many conflict with each other? What makes yours more true than the others?

IMO, I see life as an experience. A chance to learn and see what this universe has to offer, be it good or bad. And I'm comfortable with saying "I don't know how I got here or what happens when I leave." But I'm sure as hell gonna try to make this place better through my own actions, and hopefully I can learn some stuff in the process.

I will never judge another person's views because I haven't experienced the same reality they have. It just pains me sometimes to see the chance to discover, learn, and improve one's self and the world around them, squandered by willful ignorance. (and I'm not putting you into that category Matthias. I appreciate the way you've discussed this whole matter. Can't remember the last time I witnessed a semi-calm religious debate lol)

I hear ya! Where you grow up definitely have an impact on what you believe in the beginning. Yet with an open mind, and a determination to find the truth, it ultimately doesn't matter where one grows up. If God exists and we are judged, we will be judged based on what we know.

Now as for me and my beliefs, I think I have good reason to believe not only God exists, but the God of Chrisitianity exists. I want to share more of that reasoning here, but I'm also studying some things on my own, and hope to do some experimentation on a couple of hypothesis I have. For instance, I'm excited about the eventual launch of the JWST (James Webb Space Telescope). It's visual range will be greater than the Hubble telescope, and might even be able to pick up actual pictures of planets from distant solar systems. If I'm right concerning some of the hypothesis I have with creation, then there should be no asteroids/comets/meteorites in solar systems that have a star similar to our own. The JWST should be able to pick up asteroids and the like in nearby solar systems, so it can prove whether I'm right or not. Different things like that I'm looking at. I offer way more falsifiability than organizations like Answers in Genesis, which isn't all that concerned about proving the Bible is true. (Which makes me mad because they give creationists a bad name)

Nope, it says nothing about "his perspective". Besides, it's supposed to be the "word of God" is it not? Did god not know that it was the Earth that stopped & not the sun? (according to the story.)

Also, if the Sun did orbit around the Earth, that would indeed determine the position of the sun in the sky.

Yeah you're right about the sun orbiting the earth and it's position in the sky, unless I guess the earth rotated on it's axis as fast as the sun rotated around the earth. Yet besides all that, it is from his perspective. The sun's position in the sky does change, it does rise in the east and sets in the west. That is all that passage of Scripture is referring to. It wouldn't have said the earth stopped, because that wouldn't have made sense. The Scripture was written in a way the people could understand. Even if something similar happened in today's world, do you think people would say the earth stopped rotating? Most likely they would say the same thing that is written in Scripture, that the sun hadn't moved from it's spot in the sky. (Later scientists would explain what happened of course, but the Bible has no explanation within it's text. It just said the sun didn't move until Joshua was finished fighting)

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Lol good thread

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