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Remember, race has nothing to do with it...


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#166 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:18 AM

I said before that I don't know why 1 out of 3 blacks are on some form of welfare....just posted a stat. When you pressed me to explain why, I gave one possibility.

It is a systemic situation in the home where children grow up seeing their parents on welfare. they do not have the home support system to incent them to work hard in school, get an education, and thus a good paying job.

I would rather see money spent on programs to teach and help these kids than just another entitlement program.


you're so close

where you lose me is how you want money to be spent on programs "to teach and help these kids" but don't want what you call "entitlement programs"

are you proposing we do something like have night classes for poor kids to teach them how to manage money and value work or something because lol

#167 MadHatter

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:37 AM

you're so close

where you lose me is how you want money to be spent on programs "to teach and help these kids" but don't want what you call "entitlement programs"

are you proposing we do something like have night classes for poor kids to teach them how to manage money and value work or something because lol


I don't pretend to know the solution to this problem. But I do know that providing a lifetime paycheck for doing nothing is NOT the solution.

As long that that dynamic is there, you are not likely to take people from being ok to be supported by welfare to the need to get an education and become gainfully employed.

The parents if these youth are not getting the job done.

I am a 100% believer in personal accountability and self pride as the only solution. But, I realize that many do not have that support group.

I came from a family where my parents did not have college degrees. A family where my uncles/aunts/cousins ate what you would call white trash. Several are very hard working, but many are those who milk the system. So, you can say that my past could have very easily taken me to a different place. Even though my parents did not have college degrees, they desperately wanted that fir their kids. From that, they instilled a culture of working hard in school and that anything other than 100% effort there was totally unacceptable.

That worked for my sister and I but failed my three younger brothers.

One is a 30 year on and off drug addict who lives in a a 5th wheel trailer....one is in prison...and one is a 25 yo mooch living at home letting my mother (who us in social security) support him while he gets good stamps.

Thus, you can see why I don't always buy the argument that a prrson's family life and environment caused them to end up the way they did.

#168 twylyght

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:39 AM

A couple of things- I frankly dont see the correlation between working hard and being rich or poor.

Obviously if you're talking about employed vs. unemployed people that makes sense, but I know far too many poor people who work their asses off at some crappy dead end job just to make ends meet. Education is a much bigger influence in your earnings than work ethic.

Also I'm pretty sure the working poor are included in the numbers brought up earlier in the thread, so I dont see how they apply to this argument.

Oh and capitalism will always have some frictional unemployment, though Im not sure exactly what you're talking about there


Unemployment is not a function of capitalism, but a function of people.

The point that has been refused to be acknowledged is not that the existence of hard working poor people do exist nor that lazy rich people don't exist. It is simply that persons that apply themselves are far less likely to be poor than lazy persons by default.

I've seen FAR too many immigrants come to this country with NOTHING but their work ethic and thrive when compared to American-born citizens. In the numerous conversations with them, there is no mistaking their disdain for the unemployed having seen first-hand the innumerable opportunities in the USA compared to where they came from.

Were they millionaires? A couple of them, but with a LOT of work.

Your arguments don't wash because of what we see on a daily basis. It's like saying that Asians are "overrepresented" in outstanding academic scores due to their station they were born to rather than the work they put in for their grades. There is no amount of posturing/semantics/etc that will unmake that simple truth.

Only in developed western societies can people actually claim that what we do qualifies as a strong work ethic as a national community is concerned.

#169 thatlookseasy

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:32 AM

Unemployment is not a function of capitalism, but a function of people.

The point that has been refused to be acknowledged is not that the existence of hard working poor people do exist nor that lazy rich people don't exist. It is simply that persons that apply themselves are far less likely to be poor than lazy persons by default.

I've seen FAR too many immigrants come to this country with NOTHING but their work ethic and thrive when compared to American-born citizens. In the numerous conversations with them, there is no mistaking their disdain for the unemployed having seen first-hand the innumerable opportunities in the USA compared to where they came from.

Were they millionaires? A couple of them, but with a LOT of work.

Your arguments don't wash because of what we see on a daily basis. It's like saying that Asians are "overrepresented" in outstanding academic scores due to their station they were born to rather than the work they put in for their grades. There is no amount of posturing/semantics/etc that will unmake that simple truth.

Only in developed western societies can people actually claim that what we do qualifies as a strong work ethic as a national community is concerned.


I completely agree with yoru highlighted point- though its not exactly scientific, in my experience immigrants (legal and illegal) are some of the hardest working people I know.

But thats where we differ. Most of the immigrants I know arent making much money. I mean, they make enough to live a good life, but they typically work a ton of hours and dont make much. Just because America provides better work opportunites than 3rd world countries doesn mean we shouldnt try to do better.

Also, frictional unemplyment is simply the unemployment that results from people changing jobs, doesnt have anything to do with being lazy


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