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#136 4Corners

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:14 PM

Regardless of the story, as a Panther die-hard, Bill is a guy I highly respect and miss his involvement with the team. I'm glad he is starting to incorporate himself back into the community and it's refreshing to hear him back on the airways.

I've been tuning in every now and then to ESPN730 just based on the fact that WFNZ is losing it's credibility. They didn't have much to begin with, either. I've been listening to 730 based on the fact that they don't try to be cute with the broadcast and stick to what I want to hear.

Is Bill on the show everyday or just weekly?

Anyone who listens to 730, I'd like to know how it is on a regular basis. I know they've only been around now for a year or two but like I stated earlier, WFNZ is just getting harder and harder to listen to. The closest thing to real sports journalism on 610 is Brett Jensen. I'm looking to make a switch.

#137 rayzor

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:14 PM

Well in fairness, there are different levels of 'hands on'.

Still don't see this as any indication that Richardson interferes in day to day decisions within the organization. It does, however, give credence to the theory that Richardson may be undermining his coaches. Unintentionally, I would imagine, but sadly that doesn't make the result any better.

i only saw one example and it was with an ineffective coach that was on his way out the door and a player that has been a star on the team and kind of a son or grandson to JR. without more examples, i'd have to say that this isn't typical. i expect there were probably some of this going on prior to seifert's exit.

#138 PantherPhann89

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:15 PM

Too curious to not to watch...

#139 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:15 PM

i would prefer they go back to having hurney handle all of the cap stuff as the "director of player operations" and they find someone to handle all the personnel stuff as the "director of pro personnel", like they had it in the late 90's before hurney got whole GM job.

i actually think this may be what they do...at least i hope. that way jerry gets to keep hurney around and he's limited to what he does well and the team isn't hurt by his ineffectiveness in making personnel decisions.


Hurney seems like a nice guy, but it would be a monumental mistake to allow him to stay:

1) His contract negotiation skills are infamous at best. (Historically bad negotiator)

2) His "cap management genius" is matched by no less than 31 other cap managers in the NFL. (Has no unique skillset to offer)

And most importantly...

3) New team management would not be able to trust someone with such a close realtionship to the owner. (Fly on the Wall)

I would allow him to stay for a limited time as an transition adviser for a few weeks, maybe a month.

#140 pantherclaw

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:15 PM

Point is when you hire someone to be in charge of a division you don't allow the person the manager is managing to jump over their heads and come to you "The Boss".

Perhaps the puppeteer is finally starting to be revealed.

If i had a problem with my superviser, and couldn't go to the boss/owner, than there are bigger issues than what anybody is implying.

Coaches have to be held accountable also.

#141 rayzor

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:19 PM

Hurney seems like a nice guy but it would be a monumental mistake to allow him to stay:

1) His contract negotiation skills are infamous at best. (Historically bad negotiator)

2) His "cap management genius" is matched by no less than 31 other cap managers in the NFL. (Has no unique skillset to offer)

And most importantly...

3) New team management would not be able to trust someone with such a close realtionship to the owner. (Fly on the Wall)

true. he's never had any problem getting deals done with rosenhaus. that might not be a good thing for the club.

if hurney is going to stay with the team (which i have a feeling might be the case) then i'd rather it be limited to just that one aspect rather than making personnel decisions. as weak as he may be at handling the cap...i think that's his strong point.

it would be better to start fresh, tho. should have happened when fox left. i just knew that if one of those two were going to stay, i would rather have had it be hurney staying.

#142 4Corners

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:20 PM

Hurney seems like a nice guy but it would be a monumental mistake to allow him to stay:

1) His contract negotiation skills are infamous at best. (Historically bad negotiator)

2) His "cap management genius" is matched by no less than 31 other cap managers in the NFL. (Has no unique skillset to offer)

And most importantly...

3) New team management would not be able to trust someone with such a close realtionship to the owner. (Fly on the Wall)


I'm not trying to split hairs here but what evidence do you have that suggests Marty is a "historically bad negotiator" and "has no unique skill set to offer"??

Personally, I think Marty is a good guy with numbers and it's not his fault if they throw an assload of money to a bunch of RBs/LBs because after all, it's the Big Cat who is signing the check.

Bill Polian was on WFNZ yesterday and had nothing but praise for Marty. He said that Marty has been trained by the best and is an excellent GM.

The issue I have with Marty is his talent evaluation. That, of course, is not entirely up to him but he does have something to do with the scouting and player development.

#143 rayzor

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:23 PM

If i had a problem with my superviser, and couldn't go to the boss/owner, than there are bigger issues than what anybody is implying.

Coaches have to be held accountable also.

i do like this. 100% agreed. employees have to have someone in the organization they can turn to when their bosses are a problem. smith had a better relationship with JR. it just made sense for him to go to richardson and it probably wasn't even anything more than smith going to his old man and venting. i don't see those two having a typical boss/owner relationship.

#144 Montsta

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

I was just perusing profootballreference and since 1995 we have been consistently one of the shittiest franchises in football. Ill break it down like this:

Elite Teams (11 or more winning seasons since 1995)
Patriots - 14 with 12 playoff appearances
Packers - 13 with 12 playoff appearances
Colts - 13 with 13 playoff appearances
Steelers - 13 with 11 playoff appearances
Eagles - 11 with 11 playoff appearances

Top Tier Teams (8-10 winning seasons since 1995)
Dolphins - 10 with 7 playoff appearances
Jets - 10 with 7 playoff appearances
Ravens - 9 with 8 playoff appearances
Cowboys - 9 with 8 playoff appearances
Broncos - 9 with 8 playoff appearances
Vikings - 9 with 8 playoff appearances
Buccaneers - 9 with 7 playoff appearances
Atlanta - 8 with 7 playoff appearances
Chiefs - 8 with 5 playoff appearances
Giants - 8 with 8 playoff appearances

Mediocre Teams (5-7 winning seasons since 1995)
Jaguars - 7 with 5 playoff appearances
Chargers - 7 with 6 playoff appearances
49ers - 7 with 7 playoff appearances
Seahawks - 7 with 7 playoff appearances
Titans - 7 with 6 playoff appearances
Bears - 6 with 4 playoff appearances
Saints - 6 with 4 playoff appearances
Bills - 5 with 4 playoff appearances

Dogcrap Teams (4 or less winning seasons since 1995)
Rams - 4 with 5 playoff appearances
Panthers - 4 with 4 playoff appearances
Lions - 4 with 4 playoff appearances
Redskins - 4 with 3 playoff appearances
Cardinals - 3 with 3 playoff appearances
Bengals - 3 with 3 playoff appearances
Raiders - 3 with 3 playoff appearances
Texans - 2 with 1 playoff appearance
Browns - 2 with 1 playoff appearance

So there you have it. Basically we have no room to talk or laugh at any fanbase outside of maybe Cleveland. We are, and have clearly always been, a poo franchise. This is unfortunate but true.


#145 Kurb

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

If i had a problem with my superviser, and couldn't go to the boss/owner, than there are bigger issues than what anybody is implying.

Coaches have to be held accountable also.



And when your big boss tells your supervisor to stop talking to you or he will fire him there is a huge problem.

#146 mwright350

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

And when your big boss tells your supervisor to stop talking to you or he will fire him there is a huge problem.


Pretty much this.

The players absolutely do need someone to go to but the reaction was wrong.

If one of my techs came to me about their tech lead my response would not be to tell the tech lead to stop talking to / fuging with the tech. I'm sure I would mediate...but that response would be entirely wrong.

#147 rayzor

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

And when your big boss tells your supervisor to stop talking to you or he will fire him there is a huge problem.

it all depends on how that supervisor has been carrying himself and what "stop talking to him" actually meant. quit trying to push him? quit trying to start stuff with him? quit trying to force the issue?

it's just too easy to jump to conclusions with this and make assumptions that rosinski knew all the facts, interpreted them right, and that this was typical in handling of every day matters.

i think things are screwed up on the organizational level, but i think that people are blowing this out of proportion...but considering how badly things have gone i can hardly blame them.

i've had managers and supervisors that needed to be told to back off because they weren't handling key personnel in a way that was good for them or the organization. some guys just don't know when to say when and have to be given ultimatums like that. i don't know if i would have gone to that extreme, but i don't know the whole story.

just trying to bring some balance to the discussion, btw.

#148 4Corners

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:34 PM

Smith can do whatever he wants to on this team. He's proven time and time again that he is a favorite of JR.

#149 4Corners

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:35 PM

And when your big boss tells your supervisor to stop talking to you or he will fire him there is a huge problem.


Yeah gotta agree w/ this too.

Glad to see that Mr.Richardson is finally taking some heat for this losing franchise. What took us so long?

#150 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:37 PM

If i had a problem with my superviser, and couldn't go to the boss/owner, than there are bigger issues than what anybody is implying.

Coaches have to be held accountable also.


As the story was told by Rozinski:

Steve bypassed the Head Coach and General Manager and went directly to the owner. Effectively jumping the chain of command and undermining the authority of those individuals also.

JR should have asked Steve if he had tried to resolve the issue at the lowest level possible. Even going back to Davidson after cooling down and trying to discuss his concerns man to man. (Steve may have, we don't know from what Rozinski tells us.)

If an owner feels the management he has hired can't resolve this without his intervention, you are right, there are bigger issues. Apparently there were, since that coaching staff no longer works for the Panthers.


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