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#31 carpanfan96

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 02:52 PM

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I didn't even know who the hell he was till this article. I could care less what he thinks as well.

Brown is a definitely an impact player and will get plenty of shots at the QB this coming season.

#32 panthers55

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 02:55 PM

No, I'm looking for debate about whether people agree with the guy or not. He's saying we got no starting talent this year out of the draft. I agree to the extent of the Peppers situation as it may pertain to Brown. Outside of that, we got reserve players because that is the TALENT we got. I think it is asinine to say that you draft reserve players, you draft players with the hope of them being starters. Now, where the article falls short is what happens to our players beyond their rookie year.

I think we are not solid at all 22 spots on the offense and defense. Most positions yes, all...no.



And to the poster that pointed out the 95%, actually it's 95.45455%. I understand you rounded though.


You draft players not reserves or starters. They become that based on the talent of the rest of your team and how quickly they progress. I think everyone of them have starting potential but not all develop into starters. I don't think there were a dozen players in the draft that would start as rookies over our starters this year, IMO.
Which ones are we not solid on then and who of the draftees would have replaced them???

Edited by panthers55, 21 May 2009 - 02:57 PM.


#33 rayzor

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:04 PM

I'm pretty amazed with the rose colored glasses here though. I'm fairly objective and would love to think this team has every basis covered, but that's not the case. I simply don't agree that you draft reserves...late on the second day at worst, but even then you hope to find a diamond in the rough.

This guys says, by ommission, the Panthers didn't land any rookie impact players. I again tend to agree.

:lol: riiiigghht.....

#34 ncbobcat

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:18 PM

I think we are weak at DT. I think Vincent can be upgraded. We are settling with Jerrett again. Considering Peps may not be back, we could have used another DE. More depth at C/G would have been nice, relying on two 7th rounders from last year.

Again, not many issues, some that could back to bite us if the 'perfect storm' type of unfortunately events occur.

As far as who I liked better, I would have to go back and see what players were available where, but I can assure you a couple of better DTs, interior OL, WR were on the board when we selected who we did.

I hope all of these guys work out and become starters, but I don't see the immediate impact that one would like.

The one guy I can't guage is Martin. I can't decide if I really like that pick or not. If Peps stays and plays, I think Martin may be the one player that may impact our rookie class, not Brown.

#35 Zod

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:21 PM

If a 2nd to 7th round player can come in and take the starting job from the get go, what does that say about the quality of your starting lineup?

#36 Sloth

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:21 PM

I agreed on the nickelbacks, that is part of the defense.

Okay I guess STs count for kickers and returners in this case, but if a guy is drafted as a DB and plays every kick as a gunner, that isn't exactly why the guy was drafted. So the only point of contention here is Goodson/Munnerlyn as KRs/PRs. If that is the reason we drafted them and they wind up winning that job, then the draft was successful in that regard and you have a basic disagreement with the article.

I'm pretty amazed with the rose colored glasses here though. I'm fairly objective and would love to think this team has every basis covered, but that's not the case. I simply don't agree that you draft reserves...late on the second day at worst, but even then you hope to find a diamond in the rough.

This guys says, by ommission, the Panthers didn't land any rookie impact players. I again tend to agree.

As far as judging guys before they step on the field as a pro, that's called talent evaluation, and teams devote a lot of time and effort to this analysis. Whether a paid scout, fan, or sports writer; people do it all the time.


What would you have done differently?

Our holes going into the draft were backup OL, DT depth, DE (depending on the Peppers drama), nickle CB. You might be able to make an argument for QB competition, but noone we drafted would have unseated Delhomme OR McCown. And, as much as I dislike Delhomme, we had bigger needs to fill.

OL - Drafted arguably one of the best OG's available. Probably won't immediately unseat Vincent, but Vincent has injury/groin issues, so may see the field before too long. Also nabbed a pretty highly rated OT in udfa. Our line was very, VERY good last year, we can afford to grab people to mold over time.

DE - Grabbed one of the highest rated pass rushers in the draft who slipped due to size. In an odd coincidence, our new D coordinator seems to like small, high-motor rushers.

DT - Grabbed a 3rd round prospect in the 3rd round. At the very worst will spell Lewis/Hayden/FA

CB - Grabbed a guy who was a very good player, very physical, but who has some injury concerns. Pretty good ball skills in college. Will compete for the nickle and probably win it unless Wilson surprises.

RB - Goodson is a dynamic guy with a lot of talent but some coaching concerns. Not only is he pretty much a lock for our 3rd RB, expect him to be in the mix for PR/KR, some work out of the slot, screens and for some gimmick plays. This was somewhat of a luxury pick that could also pay off huge down the road.

FB - Got the highest rated guy in the draft. Luxury pick that could pay off huge down the road.

Munnerlyn was brought in because it's the 7th round, he has some upside as a gunner/returner and who cares.. it's a 7th round pick. If he does nothing more than ST it's awesome he made the team because you know he had to beat someone out convincingly to get a look.

We brought in a TON of udfa, and expect us to sign an inexpensive FA DT and FA OL at some point if they're concerned about the depth/backups being too young.

I guess I don't see what you see. The only position we're even a little shaky at right now is DT with Lewis. And honestly, Lewis just needs to be spelled more, he's not an all-star but he's no bum either.

We're pretty much set and should be a good team next year.

Edited by Sloth, 21 May 2009 - 03:23 PM.


#37 rayzor

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:24 PM

If a 2nd to 7th round player can come in and take the starting job from the get go, what does that say about the quality of your starting lineup?

12-4 was a fluke for starters. (not that i agree with that at all)

#38 ncbobcat

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:25 PM

:lol: riiiigghht.....


...And we have no room to improve. Your right, rose colored galsses are not in order, brail is for the blind. What year did we retun a boat load of starters from the previous playoff season, 2004 from 3003? Ah yes, that's the year we followed up the Super Bowl apperance and actually WON it. :confused:

#39 rayzor

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:27 PM

What would you have done differently?

Our holes going into the draft were backup OL, DT depth, DE (depending on the Peppers drama), nickle CB. You might be able to make an argument for QB competition, but noone we drafted would have unseated Delhomme OR McCown. And, as much as I dislike Delhomme, we had bigger needs to fill.

OL - Drafted arguably one of the best OG's available. Probably won't immediately unseat Vincent, but Vincent has injury/groin issues, so may see the field before too long. Also nabbed a pretty highly rated OT in udfa. Our line was very, VERY good last year, we can afford to grab people to mold over time.

DE - Grabbed one of the highest rated pass rushers in the draft who slipped due to size. In an odd coincidence, our new D coordinator seems to like small, high-motor rushers.

DT - Grabbed a 3rd round prospect in the 3rd round. At the very worst will spell Lewis/Hayden/FA

CB - Grabbed a guy who was a very good player, very physical, but who has some injury concerns. Pretty good ball skills in college. Will compete for the nickle and probably win it unless Wilson surprises.

RB - Goodson is a dynamic guy with a lot of talent but some coaching concerns. Not only is he pretty much a lock for our 3rd RB, expect him to be in the mix for PR/KR, some work out of the slot, screens and for some gimmick plays. This was somewhat of a luxury pick that could also pay off huge down the road.

FB - Got the highest rated guy in the draft. Luxury pick that could pay off huge down the road.

Munnerlyn was brought in because it's the 7th round, he has some upside as a gunner/returner and who cares.. it's a 7th round pick. If he does nothing more than ST it's awesome he made the team because you know he had to beat someone out convincingly to get a look.

We brought in a TON of udfa, and expect us to sign an inexpensive FA DT and FA OL at some point if they're concerned about the depth/backups being too young.

I guess I don't see what you see. The only position we're even a little shaky at right now is DT with Lewis. And honestly, Lewis just needs to be spelled more, he's not an all-star but he's no bum either.

We're pretty much set and should be a good team next year.

very well said and i agree.

#40 rayzor

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:28 PM

...And we have no room to improve. Your right, rose colored galsses are not in order, brail is for the blind. What year did we retun a boat load of starters from the previous playoff season, 2004 from 3003? Ah yes, that's the year we followed up the Super Bowl apperance and actually WON it. :confused:

:lol: what????? :lol:

#41 ncbobcat

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:43 PM

What would you have done differently?

Our holes going into the draft were backup OL, DT depth, DE (depending on the Peppers drama), nickle CB. You might be able to make an argument for QB competition, but noone we drafted would have unseated Delhomme OR McCown. And, as much as I dislike Delhomme, we had bigger needs to fill.

OL - Drafted arguably one of the best OG's available. Probably won't immediately unseat Vincent, but Vincent has injury/groin issues, so may see the field before too long. Also nabbed a pretty highly rated OT in udfa. Our line was very, VERY good last year, we can afford to grab people to mold over time.

DE - Grabbed one of the highest rated pass rushers in the draft who slipped due to size. In an odd coincidence, our new D coordinator seems to like small, high-motor rushers.

DT - Grabbed a 3rd round prospect in the 3rd round. At the very worst will spell Lewis/Hayden/FA

CB - Grabbed a guy who was a very good player, very physical, but who has some injury concerns. Pretty good ball skills in college. Will compete for the nickle and probably win it unless Wilson surprises.

RB - Goodson is a dynamic guy with a lot of talent but some coaching concerns. Not only is he pretty much a lock for our 3rd RB, expect him to be in the mix for PR/KR, some work out of the slot, screens and for some gimmick plays. This was somewhat of a luxury pick that could also pay off huge down the road.

FB - Got the highest rated guy in the draft. Luxury pick that could pay off huge down the road.

Munnerlyn was brought in because it's the 7th round, he has some upside as a gunner/returner and who cares.. it's a 7th round pick. If he does nothing more than ST it's awesome he made the team because you know he had to beat someone out convincingly to get a look.

We brought in a TON of udfa, and expect us to sign an inexpensive FA DT and FA OL at some point if they're concerned about the depth/backups being too young.

I guess I don't see what you see. The only position we're even a little shaky at right now is DT with Lewis. And honestly, Lewis just needs to be spelled more, he's not an all-star but he's no bum either.

We're pretty much set and should be a good team next year.


-Brown: Pass rush specialist or every down end? If Peppers isn't on the field, he'd better be an every down guy.

-Martin: Safety to corner; hard transition. I like all the physical tools though I'm not sure he'll make that switch fluidly. Still an interesting prospect.

-Irvine: I did not like the Irvine pick at that time; too little, too late. DT help was needed in the 2nd.

-Goodson: A pure speed guy... not sure what type of player he'll be. Maybe he'll pan out or else he'll be another Carter.

-Fiammetta: Solid player, but I don't like burning draft picks on FBs. I think only two were drafted...PLENTY of UFAs t choose from.

-Robinson: Liked the pick until it came out that he isn't a devoted football guy. I know he was rated the #2 OG, but there is a reason players fall and I didn't know why until the lack of passion was questioned by scouts.

-Munnerlyn: What can you say...the guy has heart but is severely undersized and with the holding rules like they are now, he can't compete. That one rule alone made Ricky Manning Jr. go from awsome nickel to nearly obsolete.

Edited by ncbobcat, 21 May 2009 - 03:46 PM.


#42 ncbobcat

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 03:51 PM

:lol: what????? :lol:


In other words, returning the majority of a roster form a previous playoff year doesn't necessarily mean instant success the next season or improvements can't be made. We didn't follow up the 2003 season with a Super Bowl in 2004, heck, we didn't even make the playoffs!

#43 Sloth

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 04:02 PM

-Brown: Pass rush specialist or every down end? If Peppers isn't on the field, he'd better be an every down guy.

-Martin: Safety to corner; hard transition. I like all the physical tools though I'm not sure he'll make that switch fluidly. Still an interesting prospect.

-Irvine: I did not like the Irvine pick at that time; too little, too late. DT help was needed in the 2nd.

-Goodson: A pure speed guy... not sure what type of player he'll be. Maybe he'll pan out or else he'll be another Carter.

-Fiammetta: Solid player, but I don't like burning draft picks on FBs. I think only two were drafted...PLENTY of UFAs t choose from.

-Robinson: Liked the pick until it came out that he isn't a devoted football guy. I know he was rated the #2 OG, but there is a reason players fall and I didn't know why until the lack of passion was questioned by scouts.

-Munnerlyn: What can you say...the guy has heart but is severely undersized and with the holding rules like they are now, he can't compete. That one rule alone made Ricky Manning Jr. go from awsome nickel to nearly obsolete.


Martin - It was either him or Smith at that spot. Smith is a physical specimen, Martin is a more physical player. I wanted Smith at the time, did some research and like this pick more now than then.

Irvin - I didn't like him, but there wasn't anyone much better at that pick. As for DT in the second, BPA. Brown is BPA all day long at that spot.

Goodson - Boom or bust guy. Has a ton of talent, but some coaching issues and his numbers went down every year. I'd be more concerned if he was going to be our #2, but he's pretty much just gotta replace Goings. He should be an upgrade.

Fiametta - I don't like throwing picks at FBs either, especially when ours is pretty good and has a few years left, so I sorta agree here. BPA probably, and could really pay off down the road as he has time to learn and get better. The more time goes by, the more I warm to this one.

Robinson - He's almost a perfect fit for our OL style. He's better in the run game than pass game, he's huge and he plays mean which we need more of. He's also going to be surrounded by some very high character guys who work hard. He also has the benefit of not needing to jump in the fire right away, barring injury to Vincent.

Munnerlyn - 7th round pick. Again, even if all he does is ST for the rest of his career, we did good with that pick, because you need ST guys too. I'm not a USC homer and I don't think he's serious competition for the nickle, but he does have some upside as a gunner/returner and emergency/dime CB.

The truth is we didn't really have a ton of holes, other than depth this year. This was a bad, bad year for DT and we didn't have a first rounder due to Otah. Our biggest off-season loss was Hangartner, who was a (awesome) reserve.

#44 Frizzy350

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 04:12 PM

No, I'm looking for debate about whether people agree with the guy or not. He's saying we got no starting talent this year out of the draft. I agree to the extent of the Peppers situation as it may pertain to Brown. Outside of that, we got reserve players because that is the TALENT we got. I think it is asinine to say that you draft reserve players, you draft players with the hope of them being starters. Now, where the article falls short is what happens to our players beyond their rookie year.

I think we are not solid at all 22 spots on the offense and defense. Most positions yes, all...no.



And to the poster that pointed out the 95%, actually it's 95.45455%. I understand you rounded though.


whoa whoa whoa, i thought we were wondering if we got any immediate contributors, but now it's been changed to talent/potential? make up ur mind broski

#45 panthers55

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 04:12 PM

-Brown: Pass rush specialist or every down end? If Peppers isn't on the field, he'd better be an every down guy.

-Martin: Safety to corner; hard transition. I like all the physical tools though I'm not sure he'll make that switch fluidly. Still an interesting prospect.

-Irvine: I did not like the Irvine pick at that time; too little, too late. DT help was needed in the 2nd.

-Goodson: A pure speed guy... not sure what type of player he'll be. Maybe he'll pan out or else he'll be another Carter.

-Fiammetta: Solid player, but I don't like burning draft picks on FBs. I think only two were drafted...PLENTY of UFAs t choose from.

-Robinson: Liked the pick until it came out that he isn't a devoted football guy. I know he was rated the #2 OG, but there is a reason players fall and I didn't know why until the lack of passion was questioned by scouts.

-Munnerlyn: What can you say...the guy has heart but is severely undersized and with the holding rules like they are now, he can't compete. That one rule alone made Ricky Manning Jr. go from awsome nickel to nearly obsolete.


-Brown is just the kind of guy that Meeks has turned into stars. Plus we still have Johnson, Brayton and Taylor in the rotation. With Peppers here we actually have a strong DE rotation. Brown was known for having a non stop motor which makes him capable of every down. This year the linebackers will be making more running play stops so his run defense won't be the issue it would have been with Trgo.

-Martin is a safety which is what Meeks will use him for. In his sytem they use safeties in the nickel slot and more zone coverage rather than man. He is aphysical guy which is exactly what they wanted.

-Irvine-wasn't my favorite pick either but i will wait to see what he does in camp and the preseason.

- Goodson- will provide depth at running back and might take his crack at special teams/KR etc. Can't have enough running backs in our system and we may need an eventual replacement for Williams if he wants too much at free agency time. You heard it here first.

-Fiammetta- great pickup. As many middle round picks as we have wasted over the years, he seems like a real find. In a running offense like our he is a steal.

Robinson- If he turns out to be decent he will be worth the pick. How many fifth rounders do we have starting for our team anyway.

Munnerlyn- Again the kind of guy who may not be a shutdown corner but within a system can go very well. Meeks is a system kind of guy. Again what do you expect in the 7th. If he makes the team he was a good pick.

Was it a great draft? Who knows but we have at least 3 future starters and several contributors right away. Exactly what we wanted.


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