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#211 Darth Bobo

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:56 PM

Charles Johnson, Ryan Kalil, Jonathan Stewart, picking up Byron Bell, Frank Alexander....lets not act like everybody but Cam and Smith that Hurney has drafted has been a bust....

1.13 Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon
1.19 Jeff Otah, OT, Pittsburgh
(no second round)
3.4 Charles Godfrey, CB, Iowa
3.11 Dan Connor, OLB, Penn State
(no fourth round)
5.6 Gary Barnidge, TE, Louisville
6.15 Nick Hayden, DT, Wisconsin
7.14 Hilee Taylor, OLB, North Carolina
7.34 Geoff Schwartz, OL, Oregon
7.43 Mackenzy Bernadeau, OG, Bentley

5 years ago, Carolina produced a nearly FLAWLESS draft. Yes, we traded away future picks, but at least we did it for the right players. Almost every player in this list started at some point.

(no first round)
2.11 Brown, Everette, DE, Florida State
2.27 Martin, Sherrod, S, Troy
3.29 Irvin, Corvey, DL, Georgia
4.11 Goodson, Mike, RB, Texas A&M
4.28 Fiammetta, Tony, FB, Syracuse
5.27 Robinson, Duke, OT, Oklahoma
(no sixth round)
7.7 Munnerlyn, Captain, CB, South Carolina

4 years ago, only (Goodson, Martin, and Munnerlyn) were worth a damn. A quick study of the 2009 draft class will show that this was generally a weak year for the entire league. However, our picks were were poorly chosen compared to our needs in 2009 and none have emerged as playmakers.

(no first round)
2.16 Clausen, Jimmy, QB, Notre Dame
3.14 LaFell, Brandon, WR, LSU
3.25 Edwards, Armanti, QB, Appalachian State
4.26 Norwood, Eric, LB, South Carolina
(no fifth round)
6.6 Hardy, Greg, DE, Mississippi
6.29 Gettis, David, WR, Baylor
6.33 Pugh, Jordan, DB, Texas A&M
6.35 Pike, Tony, QB, Cincinnati
7.16 Stanford, RJ, DB, Utah
7.42 McClain, Robert, DB, Connecticut

3 years ago, we improved on the previous catastrophic draft, and sincerely tried to address the QB position. Believe it or not Pike was considered a strong QB that year, but he was injured quite early. We landed a number of starters, but the Edwards and Clausen picks were clearly high investment for low return.

1.1 Cam Newton, QB, Auburn
(no second round)
3.1 Terrell McClain, DL, South Florida
3.3 Sione Fua, DL, Stanford
4.1 Brandon Hogan, DB, West Virginia
5.1 Kealoha Pilares, WR, Hawaii
6.1 Lawrence Wilson, LB, Connecticut
6.38 Zachary Williams, OL, Washington St
7.41 Lee Ziemba, OT, Auburn

2 years ago, we took what many talking heads considered a big risk. If Hurney had gotten Newton wrong, he would have been fired immediately, and one has to question the extent of Rivera's involvement in this pick. That year, the greatest risk of Hurney's career produced the QB that broke nearly every rookie record on the books. We made a measured investment at defensive tackle, but had to throw them into the fire before they were ready owing to Edwards' pectoral tear. Past the 3rd round, only Kealoha panned out, but we've surrounded him with incompetence on special teams.

1.9 Luke Kuechly, LB, Boston College
2.8 Amini Silatolu, OG, Midwestern State
(no third round)
4.8 Frank Alexander, DE, Oklahoma
4.9 Joe Adams, WR, Arkansas
5.8 Josh Norman, CB, Coastal Carolina
6.37 Brad Nortman, P, Wisconsin
7.9 D.J. Campbell, FS, California

Kuechly was probably the best player available, and he has performed like any team would expect given his draft position. Silatolu is already playing, which is a bad sign in terms of personnel management as it relates to rookie player development. I would judge this draft as being an average overall draft. It does not trouble me that some players are not on the final 53.

If I were going to measure Hurney's performance, I wouldn't look beyond 5 years ago for a "what have you done for me lately" league. I think the excessive pay of Charles Johnson (72m guaranteed) is a problem for OTHER PLAYERS, for example the other end position where we needed a complimentary end and didn't get one. We've needed a slot receiver badly for years, and have never demonstrated the coaching talent to grow depth from within. I think one would have to be second guess the departure of Jeremy Shockey as an affordable and competent blocker for the run, a complimantary (to Olsen) short pass threat over the Mike LB, and basically spreading out defenders for Cam Newton. I say his loss has affected both our RB's and Cam deeply and significantly. Was there not cap room?

#212 Keith Moons Liver

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:00 PM

You can't evaluate our drafts simply by seeing if a guy started or not. We sign few free agents and fewer good ones- our draft picks are going to have every opportunity to start, even if they suck. That's why we are one of the worst teams in the entire league. When you look for competent starters drafted, it gets really ugly really fast.

#213 Darth Bobo

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:22 PM

When you look for competent starters drafted, it gets really ugly really fast.

One has to wonder whether inadequate developmental coaching might be to blame in part, but I do agree that in the 3 early rounds we rightly expect more of our players to be on the highlight reels.

Scouting, drafting, and free agency are critical responsibilities of a general manager for which they are not entitled a bad YEAR (year!!!). When I look at the 2009 draft, it seems like a pretty aggregious failure. Fox left after that season, but Hurney was kept.

Now, that we are in a stretch of the regular season when coaching and players take over, and team management is in a more maintenance role, I find it dubious that Hurney is taking the fall. Sure, we have several underperforming units, and only a costly infusion of outside talent could repair them, and even then we'd not make the playoffs, so there's no point. We had to beat Dallas and we failed.

As I see it, there are far more relevant personnel who are more directly responsible from week to week for poor performance. I find it hard to excuse DeAngelo Williams right now, for example. How about you?

#214 ZedLeppelin


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:26 PM

Holy poo those are some terrible drafts lol

Not counting this years which is a TBD there is Cam who still has a lot to prove and J-Stew who has gone over 1,000 yards once as the only guys who could start on a good team.

#215 PantherPhann89


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:41 PM

WHAT...I read it but I don't believe it. I'm shocked, I'm surprised, I'm excited...

#216 Wanderlai


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:44 PM

This is a start. I didn't think JR would do it.

#217 Lumps


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:29 PM

I just found out hol fug YES!


i am a pure jr hater but for this....for this he gets some respect from me back. a little late but better late than never.

hopefully he told Rivera to shape the fug up, full control, no excuses

#218 iamcline


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:38 PM

If we go just by drafts then this year's draft has to be considered his best since 2008...but apparently that's not what got him canned.

#219 jramsey4


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:07 PM

All I know is JR better take a good look at Marc Ross the Giants college scouting.director by far my favorite candidate and.has been for years.

#220 AceBoogie



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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:11 PM

Let us hope this gets better no worse

#221 SmootsDaddy89


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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:39 PM

Posted Image

#222 Upper Deck West End Zone

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:04 PM

I've been hyper-critical of Hurney for several years.

Before the season, I posted a comment that, out of deference to the pro-Hurney people on this site, I would wait until the end of the season to post about Hurney again. Due to circumstances, I feel OK about posting now.

Jerry had to act now because of the fiasco against dallas. Jerry must have looked out from the mother suite and saw the truth…the real state of the franchise: his stadium taken over by the evil empire. He must have heard the abuse we received from the fast food workers also known as cowgirl fans.

So Jerry had to send a message. "I feel your pain so I'm going to do something drastic to stop the bleeding."

After that loss, he knew he risked losing his fan base. About 40% didn’t even show up and the 60% probably, like me, were asking, “why do I pay for this?”

The hope is the fan base will go, "OK...Jerry fired the guy most of us hated so I'm OK about buying my season tickets again next year. And if we still miss the playoffs in 2013 then we're heading in the right direction because we have a new GM."

Truth is we might not get a new GM. Jerry has worked the GM/Head Coach thing in different ways. He might end up hiring a new coach who wants to be the GM. Or maybe we’ll return to the days when Mark Richardson went on the radio to say that personnel moves (like the Sean ‘Fatty’ Gilbert deal) were a “Panthers decision” ...whatever that meant.

Over the past weeks, I've come to realize that the problem is the owner. It's not an easy thing to write.

He does not know how to hire, and keep, top quality executives and coaches. Seifert. His sons. Polian. Hurney. Fox. The record since inception is poor, in part, because the men in charge have been awful…or shown promise, then become awful. Or they just got fed up with Jerry and walked out the door.

I have zero faith in Jerry's ability to hire a replacement GM (or coach, if it comes to that) who will help us compete for a Super Bowl. Why should I?

And I have no reason to believe that the very top candidates will want to be here after the way he treated Bill Polian and John Fox. If you're the new GM, on your first day, you will walk into your office and find a big, fat, steamy pile of fecal matter on your desk...the 'ordure' from the big cash handed to the core of the team that went 2-14.

Based on the owner's track record, there's no reason to be optimistic about this franchise and I hate to be so pessimistic, especially on a day I thought would be exciting and the start of a new start. OK. Marty Hurney can now return to journalism…so what?

The atmosphere in the front office is clearly toxic, chaotic, and edgy. If you're a highly sought-after candidate for a GM job, would you want to work here?

Who knows how much Jerry meddles in personnel and coaching decisions...the answer is irrelevant. Until Jerry sells the team, which is extremely unlikely, we'll be doomed to the same record Jerry has produced since he brought the team here.

There is, however, a silver lining.

Unlike the other Jerry (who also hasn’t produced much of anything in the last several seasons), our Jerry has partners in the ownership structure. We rarely, if ever, hear about the partners. I know some of them personally and even worked for one: these guys don’t mess around and I imagine most of them were there on Sunday. They probably received some abuse from the fast food workers also known as cowgirl fans. They, too, must be livid and I’m somewhat confident the partners will demand that Jerry make changes.

And there’s us, the fans…the people who buy the tickets and the beers and the stuff and take the abuse from the invading fans.

If we stop renewing our tickets and stop buying the beers and stop buying the stuff then Jerry will get the message…perhaps where it hurts the most…in his wallet.

Yes…I wanted to see Hurney go but I feel no happier now.

#223 Herbert The Love Bug

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:27 AM

I bet he gets a job with the broncos in some compacity

#224 Darth Bobo

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:29 PM

I bet he gets a job with the broncos in some compacity

Assuming he still wants the work, I think an offer would be likely. After reviewing the last 10 years of Panther drafts, Hurney's best drafts were with Fox, so they seem to work well together.

UpperDeck must be right about Jerry's meddling in draft day decisions. Clearly, Jerry sacked the team leading up to the last CBA, and if he were cutting players and refusing to sign free agents, and since that was his game, it should also be obvious his strategy would include draft day meddling too. Why only meddle in that year?

It's an owner's right sure, but I tend to agree that once the media finds out (not that they have) that an owner has been putting pressure on a GM/HC to make certain personnel decisisons, the angle is presented negatively. I know when Shanahan took the Skins job, he said he wouldn't take it if Snyder meddled in his decisions(I'll take Haynesworthless for 100 million, Alex?). Non-interference by his owner was a condition of his accepting the position. Now, they are doing well in one of the toughest divisions.

Richardson is not a committee man, he's a tyrant. It's his way or the highway. That is reflected not only with the Panthers, but elsewhere in non-football business. Throughout the last CBA process, he was the immutable enforcer. When you need one of those, they are invaluable. When you don't need one of those, they are a big liability.

When looking for a GM, a meddlesome tyrant is a liability. Hate to agree, but I do.