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Panthers 7th in yards per offensive play, 28th in Total Offense


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#31 Floppin

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:58 PM

Cam Newton has attempted 51 passes on 3rd down. He has completed 25 of them. 49% completions.

31% of the attempts have been at 3rd and 3-7
39% have been at 3rd and 8-10
29% have been at 3rd and 11+

There is nothing unusual about those distance ratios.


Other than the fact that 70% of our 3rd downs have been of the third and long variety? Get the fug outta here.

#32 Floppin

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:58 PM

didn't he dump ypp at some point late last year because the numbers didn't wash anymore? carolina finished in the top half of the league by season's end after all.

that and his main man The Golden Calf of Bristol taking a poo against the pats and then getting traded.


I'm pretty sure he had melted down and left the forum before our YPP had normalized.

#33 Floppin

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:03 PM

Cam Newton has attempted 51 passes on 3rd down. He has completed 25 of them. 49% completions.

31% of the attempts have been at 3rd and 3-7
39% have been at 3rd and 8-10
29% have been at 3rd and 11+

There is nothing unusual about those distance ratios.


Let me break this down a little bit more for you.

As I stated, about 70% of our 3rd downs have been of the guaranteed passing variety; ie third and long (7yards to go or more)

EVERY QB IN THE LEAGUE is going to have worse than their average numbers against defenses who are aligned against obvious passing downs.

One first down you will notice an almost league split of 50/50 in pass to run ratio and as such QB's LEAGUE WIDE will have higher completion percentages because defenses can't completely sell out to stop the pass. In fact in most cases teams err on the side of run defense on first down. This trend continues into second down.

Once you get into third down, anything over 3rd and three becomes a passing down at an incredibly high rate, league wide. This means that you are going to be forced to complete a pass against a defense that is ready to defend against it. It becomes even harder when you don't run any quick hitting routes to pick up a designed 5-8 yards and instead rely primarily on downfield passing, like we did for the first 6 games.

Every QB in the league is going to have a worse completion percentage on third down than on first. Our offensive design did nothing but exacerbate an already existing trend.

#34 TonyN

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:10 PM

Let me break this down a little bit more for you.

As I stated, about 70% of our 3rd downs have been of the guaranteed passing variety; ie third and long (7yards to go or more)

EVERY QB IN THE LEAGUE is going to have worse than their average numbers against defenses who are aligned against obvious passing downs.

One first down you will notice an almost league split of 50/50 in pass to run ratio and as such QB's LEAGUE WIDE will have higher completion percentages because defenses can't completely sell out to stop the pass. In fact in most cases teams err on the side of run defense on first down. This trend continues into second down.

Once you get into third down, anything over 3rd and three becomes a passing down at an incredibly high rate, league wide. This means that you are going to be forced to complete a pass against a defense that is ready to defend against it. It becomes even harder when you don't run any quick hitting routes to pick up a designed 5-8 yards and instead rely primarily on downfield passing, like we did for the first 6 games.

Every QB in the league is going to have a worse completion percentage on third down than on first. Our offensive design did nothing but exacerbate an already existing trend.


Well, then, why don't you do something really adventurous and compare Cam Newton's 3rd down situational stats with those of other quarterbacks in the NFL.

Just an example: Newton on 3rd and 3-7 is at 43.8%.
The next worse I could find is Russell Wilson at 48 %

#35 Sloth

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:13 PM

Well, then, why don't you do something really adventurous and compare Cam Newton's 3rd down situational stats with those of other quarterbacks in the NFL.

Just an example: Newton on 3rd and 3-7 is at 43.8%.
The next worse I could find is Russell Wilson at 48 %


It becomes even harder when you don't run any quick hitting routes to pick up a designed 5-8 yards and instead rely primarily on downfield passing, like we did for the first 6 games.

Every QB in the league is going to have a worse completion percentage on third down than on first. Our offensive design did nothing but exacerbate an already existing trend.


That was hard to find.

#36 Floppin

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:14 PM

Well, then, why don't you do something really adventurous and compare Cam Newton's 3rd down situational stats with those of other quarterbacks in the NFL.

Just an example: Newton on 3rd and 3-7 is at 43.8%.
The next worse I could find is Russell Wilson at 48 %


Like I stated, we didn't really have many passing plays that were designed for 3-7 yards. Our primary route tree were slow developing passes out of the read option. This allowed defenses to tee off on Newton and sell out on the pass. Again, our offensive design just exacerbated an already existing natural trend.

Newton likely wouldn't have tops in the league with proper play calling and design, but it wouldn't be near the bottom either. The kid is young, he's not supposed to be the best in the league in his second year. But really, this is more of a symptom of overall offensive design fault than any true indictment against Cam.

#37 TonyN

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:35 PM

Like I stated, we didn't really have many passing plays that were designed for 3-7 yards. Our primary route tree were slow developing passes out of the read option. This allowed defenses to tee off on Newton and sell out on the pass. Again, our offensive design just exacerbated an already existing natural trend.

Newton likely wouldn't have tops in the league with proper play calling and design, but it wouldn't be near the bottom either. The kid is young, he's not supposed to be the best in the league in his second year. But really, this is more of a symptom of overall offensive design fault than any true indictment against Cam.



Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, obviously.
I see a young player who often CHOOSES to go downfield with the football in preference to taking something easy underneath. I also see a young player who struggles with accuracy on short and intermediate routes.

I like what they did with him yesterday, though. They took the game out of his hands a little bit and it obviously helped.

#38 PantherPhann89

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:20 PM

During our 1st Chud year, I said that we needed an additional OC to call Redzone plays. Chud goes full retard when 1 of 2 things happen: 1) J Stew doesn't play and 2) Our offense gets in the Redzone.

#39 TonyN

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:23 PM

I thought he was originally, but he's using stats from ESPN and NFL.com (such as sorting o-lines by sacks given up as an overall o-line metric LMfugingAO) rather than espousing some retarded advanced metric that he doesn't really understand. So I dunno.


Actually, had you chosen to actually look at the link, you would find you are dead wrong about the numbers NFL.com uses to rank offensive lines. So continue to LYfugingAO, but do be aware you are doing so in ignorance.

#40 The_Mango55

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:44 PM

During our 1st Chud year, I said that we needed an additional OC to call Redzone plays. Chud goes full retard when 1 of 2 things happen: 1) J Stew doesn't play and 2) Our offense gets in the Redzone.


Last year we were one of the best red zone teams in the nfl weren't we?

#41 The_Mango55

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:55 PM

Lol oh man I forgot how horrible a stat YPP was (as an overall indicator of team performance, it can be good in some situations).

I think I brought this point up multiple times but pffl always ignored it: according to YPP (if you use it to judge offense by itself) a team that drives 80 yards for a td every possession of a game is less effective offensively than a team that goes 3 and out on every series but returns a kick for a td.

#42 Udogg

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:17 AM

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, obviously.
I see a young player who often CHOOSES to go downfield with the football in preference to taking something easy underneath. I also see a young player who struggles with accuracy on short and intermediate routes.

I like what they did with him yesterday, though. They took the game out of his hands a little bit and it obviously helped.


You mean like how he only threw for 300 + yards and how they actually used 2 of the top 8 highest paid running backs in the league?

Put it like this, if they did that 7 weeks ago, you wouldn't be on this site. Kind of coincides with the poor coaching performance theme we have going on here.

#43 TonyN

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:47 AM

You mean like how he only threw for 300 + yards and how they actually used 2 of the top 8 highest paid running backs in the league?

Put it like this, if they did that 7 weeks ago, you wouldn't be on this site. Kind of coincides with the poor coaching performance theme we have going on here.


One last post before I get off work (yes, yes, blind homers, go ahead and celebrate and post insults),

Newton had 315 yards passing yesterday: 65 of it came on a complete busted coverage play by the Bears. Another huge chunk of it came on a Newton jump ball that Smitty makes a great play on. Newton also threw 2 interceptions and could have easily thrown 2 more. He completed barely 50 % of his passes and his Quarterback rating was, I think, 50. In other words, terrible.

I agree with the general premise of your argument, I think.

The one huge mistake Ron Rivera made ( it will probably cost him his job) was trying to design an offense around Cam Newton.

This team has quite a bit of talent on offense, and a rapidly improving defense which is on the verge of becoming a top tier unit.

Amazingly, the complete moron Rivera is accomplishing this defensive improvement with very suspect talent in the secondary.

Anyway, they took the game largely out of Newton's hands and played much better football.
Let's hope it continues.

#44 jayflip

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:35 AM

So tony n is pffl and from here on our we should all ignore his diatribe. As tempting as it may be to reply to his idiocy, let it be. He will soon go away once Cam comes around again, just like he did last year. PFFL had one leg to stand on and Cam chopped it off with a kitana blade. Now that we, as a team, are struggling due to poor coaching, PFFL is on his nubs trying to spew more bullshit. It's laughable to the point where it's sad.

#45 Udogg

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:43 AM

Newton had 315 yards passing yesterday: 65 of it came on a complete busted coverage play by the Bears. Another huge chunk of it came on a Newton jump ball that Smitty makes a great play on. Newton also threw 2 interceptions and could have easily thrown 2 more. He completed barely 50 % of his passes and his Quarterback rating was, I think, 50. In other words, terrible.


Anyway, they took the game largely out of Newton's hands and played much better football.
Let's hope it continues.



Wow :) I will say you are entertaining in your attempts to troll.

Busted coverage? Do you know how many big plays are "busted coverages"
Jump ball? Watch Drew Brees and Matthew Stafford play a game.
Almost picks aren't a stat
Steve Smith slipped on a timing route on 1 pick. The other pick even thought it can be argued is Cam's fault.


If taking the ball largely out of Newton's hands means that they
a) Used more traditional NFL sets.
b.) Used the 89 million dollars worth of running backs
c) Used more 2 TE formations which were successful last year and apparently this year as well.
d) Actually did more than say "hey Cam get in Shotgun and win it for us like you did at Auburn"
e) Still had him pass more than 30+ times,

Then yes they took the ball "LARGELY" out of his hands.


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