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Panthers 7th in yards per offensive play, 28th in Total Offense


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#46 PantherPhann89

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:54 AM

Last year we were one of the best red zone teams in the nfl weren't we?

We improved into the year with designed runs for Cam in the redzone. Not sure where we were stat wise.

#47 MadHatter

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:06 AM

30th in run blocking and 26th in pass pro now, so getting worse.

Keep in mind that the OP is of the opinion that coaching is fine. i.e. he's reading stats, not watching games.


Actually tge OP has repeatedly stated that the issue is both coaching and execution. All if the over-the-top top Cam slurpers refuse to see that execution is a big issue....not just coaching.

Play calling sucks...but our offensive's execution has been just as bad (especially on third down).

#48 Navy_football

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:34 AM

I think 3rd down conversion % is a telling stat. It does matter, and shouldn't be ignored.

How did Cam do yesterday on 3rd down conversions with a more balanced run attack vs the previous 5 games? Really would like to know if anyone can find it. I recall the announcer saying we hadn't gone 3 and out until sometime in the 3rd quarter against the Bears.

#49 I Mean He Was Found Guilty

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:49 AM

I think 3rd down conversion % is a telling stat. It does matter, and shouldn't be ignored.

How did Cam do yesterday on 3rd down conversions with a more balanced run attack vs the previous 5 games? Really would like to know if anyone can find it. I recall the announcer saying we hadn't gone 3 and out until sometime in the 3rd quarter against the Bears.


team was 10/19 on third down

#50 Sloth

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:50 AM

Actually tge OP has repeatedly stated that the issue is both coaching and execution. All if the over-the-top top Cam slurpers refuse to see that execution is a big issue....not just coaching.

Play calling sucks...but our offensive's execution has been just as bad (especially on third down).



The OP has another thread/post from a day or two ago saying that coaching wasn't an issue. Newton is bringing the coaching staff down. So no, that's not what he's saying at all.

What he's trying (and failing) to allude to is that Cam is almost completely responsible for our 3rd down efficiency by posting cherry picked stats with no context whatsoever. He's not interested in hearing how bad our running game is if you remove Cam's scrambling, how bad the OLine has been in general, the fact that a huge portion of our third downs have been long, the fact that prior to this game we ran very few short/quick routes and instead looked for slow developing, down field throws, the fact that the read option being our base package for so long made it so that by the time Newton set his feet and started looking for people to throw to, the pass rush had already had about 2 - 3 seconds to abuse our piss poor line, etc.

#51 I Mean He Was Found Guilty

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:08 AM

the op picked a conclusion and then worked backwards from it basically.

i know it's rare to see that on the internet but that's how it happened.

#52 ShutDwn

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:09 AM

I wish I could find the source, but someone posted a ton of splits on Cam's statistics down by down.

Basically, he's great on first down and awful on third.

But, he hardly ever throws a pass that doesn't go past the third down yardage. Meaning, he doesn't do what a lot of other QBs do, which is take the underneath throw and hope the WR/TE/RB makes someone miss.

I thought Cam did that much better in the last game. They converted 52% and they did it without a lot of help from the run game. They didn't go 3 and out for a very long time. I thought they were in less 3rd and 12 as well, thanks to avoiding the option.

Those third downs will improve if he throws to Lafell, Olsen, Tolbert and Stewart more.

#53 Argus Plexus

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:18 AM

Yeah, it's hard to make a difficult throw like that when the LoS is a jailbreak every down.

#54 TonyN

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:27 PM

Not that it matters, but since some have asked:

I have stated repeatedly that Carolina's offensive problems are primarily twofold:
1.The decision to install the read option offense.
2. The poor execution of that offense, by the players, especially Cam Newton.

I have also repeatedly stated that I believe Ron Rivera to be a good coach and that I expect him to be fired, rehired as a DC somewhere immediately, and then get another head coaching job very soon and succeed.

Why did he make the mistake of installing the read option? Because he is a defensive coach in his first head coaching gig and he was persueded into doing so. Who wanted the read option more than anyone else: Cam Newton.

Let me state that again...who wanted the read option more than anyone else??? Cam Newton.

Ron Rivera's great mistake was in buying into the Newton "revolutionizing the game" nonsense and building an offense around him in particular, rather than following the established blueprint.

All that being said, the Panthers could be in a much better situation right now if Newton had simply played better. The read option was a mistake, but you cannot blame all of Newton's problems on it. The kid makes many poor decisions with the football, often choosing to try to make a big play rather than taking a safe, smaller gain. He still locks onto receivers--you can see it--and tries to force the ball where it should not be thrown. He is not an accurate passer on short and intermediate routes. Newton throws a lot of balls into the ground around open receivers.

I have never said that Newton was a "bum" or a "bust" or compared him to Vince Young.

All I have said is that HE more than anyone else on this team, needs to step up his play.

And I love the direction of the defense, which the COMPLETE MORON Ron Rivera has playing terrific football despite very questionable talent in the seconday.

#55 Navy_football

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:32 PM

Tony, I agree with a lot of what you said, but what OC in his right mind would let a sophomore QB decide the team will run a read option based offense in the NFL? That doesn't make sense to me.

Cam does need to work on his short/intermediate accuracy. It's not that he isn't accurate, but he's inconsistent and tends to float the ball at times. I think he can get better at it, but I'm not sure he'll ever be elite there when the play isn't called specifically for short routes. He tends to lose accuracy when checking down to closer routes. Could be a lack of confidence in his oline. Could just be a mental thing that will haunt him for some time.

I do think he usually gives the team a chance to win games. I think he could be better if plays were called for shorter/quicker routes with a deep shot every now and then. That's what most of the good teams do. Brees, Brady, Eli, Peyton don't just come out bombing every game. They play a cerebral game that forces the defense to adjust, and then take advantage of the coverages.

I think someone needs to tell him to control the game instead of going for the big play so often.

#56 SauceBoss

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:39 PM

This is a combination of the defense not getting off the field on third downs, and garbage yardage.

#57 TonyN

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

Tony, I agree with a lot of what you said, but what OC in his right mind would let a sophomore QB decide the team will run a read option based offense in the NFL? That doesn't make sense to me.

Cam does need to work on his short/intermediate accuracy. It's not that he isn't accurate, but he's inconsistent and tends to float the ball at times. I think he can get better at it, but I'm not sure he'll ever be elite there when the play isn't called specifically for short routes. He tends to lose accuracy when checking down to closer routes. Could be a lack of confidence in his oline. Could just be a mental thing that will haunt him for some time.

I do think he usually gives the team a chance to win games. I think he could be better if plays were called for shorter/quicker routes with a deep shot every now and then. That's what most of the good teams do. Brees, Brady, Eli, Peyton don't just come out bombing every game. They play a cerebral game that forces the defense to adjust, and then take advantage of the coverages.

I think someone needs to tell him to control the game instead of going for the big play so often.


The decision to go read option was lunacy. Chud has strong roots in the college game and saw it work to a suprising degree last year in Denver, but that does not absolve him from blame for installing it and especially Rivera (and probably Hurney) from going along with it.

#58 King Taharqa

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

I have never said that Newton was a "bum" or a "bust" or compared him to Vince Young.

All I have said is that HE more than anyone else on this team, needs to step up his play.


You've never said anybody else needs to step up their play, including our O line, and our RBs. You claim our coaching staff is doing an excellent job and is being handicapped by our QB. Newton is still our top rusher and has the longest run of the season, our defense while improving still has not closed out a game in 2 years (save for Indy/Curtis Painter last year). I would love to see your wall of text analysis on how the rest of our team can improve. Or let me guess, its fine, its just the QB who's leading us in most categories that needs to step up ONLY?

#59 TonyN

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:03 PM

This is a combination of the defense not getting off the field on third downs, and garbage yardage.


The Panther defense is currently ranked 18th in opponet 3rd down conversions.
Not spectacular, for sure mediocre, but not horrible, especially for a team with very questionable talent in the secondary.

Garbage yardage??? First Down is Garbage Yardage??? Allow me to beat a very dead horse:


This season the Panthers have attempted a whopping 42% of their passes on 1st down.

They have completed 68% (tremendous) for a stunning 10.33 yards per ATTEMPT!!!

They are the most dangerous first down team in the league..(.they were NOT last year)...

Cam Newton's first down numbers are WAY up this year...a product of installing the read option which creates tremendous uncertainty on first down for opposing defenses...

The problem, though:

On SECOND down they are completing 50% of their passes...

On third down they are completing 49% of their passes...

With all due respect...those are The Golden Calf of Bristol type numbers...

Sooo...if there is an incompletion on first down (egads !!!)

Or a rushing attemtept for a short gain (horrors !!!)

The Panthers are a team that just cannot get it done on SECOND or third and anything resembling long yardage.

The read option was IMHO a bad idea, but blaming all the Panthers offensive woes on it is just absurd.

#60 TonyN

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:25 PM

You've never said anybody else needs to step up their play, including our O line, and our RBs. You claim our coaching staff is doing an excellent job and is being handicapped by our QB. Newton is still our top rusher and has the longest run of the season, our defense while improving still has not closed out a game in 2 years (save for Indy/Curtis Painter last year). I would love to see your wall of text analysis on how the rest of our team can improve. Or let me guess, its fine, its just the QB who's leading us in most categories that needs to step up ONLY?


I have ONLY stated that the coaching staff has done an excellent job with the defense. I throughly believe this to be true. The Panther secondary is weak talent wise, but the unit as a whole has played well enough to win games for damn sure.

The offensive line is a sore spot, obviously. No one is denying that, but they NOT the worse unit in the league by a long shot. Scrapping the read option and going with more two tight end sets is going to help this team tremendously.

The running backs are fine. They just need to be put in a postion to succeed.

I like our TE and reciever play just fine. Guys are getting open.

It is just a fact of life that the quarterback has the ball. He has to be the one to make it happen. The Panthers are just not getting it done on second and third down passing situations and in the Red Zone. And the responsibility for that is partially coaching, partially poor line play, and YES partially Cam Newton. He just has not played well this year. Period.


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