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Samuel L. Jackson

You fail at religion if:

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You fail at religion if you try to make it about anything more than the simple concept that it is.

Its about faith.

Its not about logic, reason, books, dogma, tradition, ritual, or what can be proven. If you don't have it you cant understand it. You can get it, but like anything worth having it takes commitment.

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like why I have the compuslion to masturbate to scary clown paintings all the time?

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I still think the "faith" argument is a copout...

Faith in what?

Faith that things will go as you would like? Faith that when they don't that you will have the strength to overcome them?

Or faith that some supernatural power will lead you to your destiny, no matter how bumpy the road?

I've had faith that I would win the lottery here as of late, but damn if I ever do... I'm sure it's some entity's will that I am not a rich man with enough money to help those around me (I most certainly would do it), and I guess "he" has plans otherwise...

I could sit on my ass all day and have faith that I wouldn't be a fat bum that didn't get blacklisted for not paying bills... However, reality would quickly chime in and make it so...

Faith is the ultimate in passiveness... You have to be the catalyst sometimes...

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You fail at religion if you try to make it about anything more than the simple concept that it is.

Its about faith.

Its not about logic, reason, books, dogma, tradition, ritual, or what can be proven. If you don't have it you cant understand it. You can get it, but like anything worth having it takes commitment.

What you just described is called blind faith. Not faith.

I think most atheists "understand" what you derive from being a believer. We get your reasons for believing in God.

Further, I was raised a Christian (like many atheists) so I've "had it."

The difference between you and me is that I channel that faith into myself and the people around me as opposed to having faith in some higher being that I do not know to exist. I have faith that I am good person, with strong morals, and a desire to live a good life filled with love and compassion for others. I have faith in myself to have the strength to meet today's challenges and tomorrow's unforeseen obstacles.

I find it to be much more productive and personally rewarding to have this faith in myself rather than in a higher power to provide these things for me.

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I still think the "faith" argument is a copout...

Faith in what?

Faith that things will go as you would like? Faith that when they don't that you will have the strength to overcome them?

Or faith that some supernatural power will lead you to your destiny, no matter how bumpy the road?

Actually none of those things.

All of that is up to me to cope with. I don't believe that the Divine is bothered with those things. For example I don't believe that any amount of prayer would have changed the fact that two people whom I loved very much died in the last 3 months or changed the fact that it was the most soul crushing sadness that Ive ever felt.

I have faith that if I live a life that adheres to the basic tenants of Christianity that there is something on the other side of this life.

I would say I believe that but I save that word for things I can prove. I believe that if I touch a hot stove it will burn me. Faith is the word for things that are not provable but I choose to accept against all reason.

I've had faith that I would win the lottery here as of late, but damn if I ever do... I'm sure it's some entity's will that I am not a rich man with enough money to help those around me (I most certainly would do it), and I guess "he" has plans otherwise...

I could sit on my ass all day and have faith that I wouldn't be a fat bum that didn't get blacklisted for not paying bills... However, reality would quickly chime in and make it so...

Faith is the ultimate in passiveness... You have to be the catalyst sometimes...

lol?

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A religion is an organization that holds beliefs. One can hold a personal belief system and not adhere to a religion. Its like people pick and choose between a handful of concrete groupthink networks just because they are there. So...religion fails because it is present. Beliefs should be projected through a different formula.

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I still think the "faith" argument is a copout...

Faith in what?

Faith was invented as a way to get around that nasty independent and critical thinking people tend to do. If people start taking a good hard look, realized they are offered no real answers the powers that be stand to lose much of their money/influence. So, chalk it up to faith. Why does god allow children to be murdered and raped? Have faith that he knows what he is doing, but he loves them none the less.

Faith a huge rug to sweep the unwanted fallacies of religion under.

Book of Zod, Chapter 4, verse 7

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What you just described is called blind faith. Not faith.

I think most atheists "understand" what you derive from being a believer. We get your reasons for believing in God.

Further, I was raised a Christian (like many atheists) so I've "had it."

The difference between you and me is that I channel that faith into myself and the people around me as opposed to having faith in some higher being that I do not know to exist. I have faith that I am good person, with strong morals, and a desire to live a good life filled with love and compassion for others. I have faith in myself to have the strength to meet today's challenges and tomorrow's unforeseen obstacles.

I find it to be much more productive and personally rewarding to have this faith in myself rather than in a higher power to provide these things for me.

Please don't presume to know what I get out of my faith. You've never spoken to me on this subject beyond these few words and my faith and what it means to me has never been fully expressed on this forum.

Blind faith is something that no one who knows me has ever accused me of. My faith is eyes wide open if its anything. I see the hypocrisy in my religion, I see the flaws in our scriptures, I condemn the corruption of our churches. Blind faith...NOT.

I put a great deal of effort into living a life worthy of my faith and trying to lead by example. BUT, you'll never find me in a church ('cept the occasional wedding or funeral) and the only time I quote scripture is to beat the sense into dogmatic and blinded sheep of the flock.

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Please don't presume to know what I get out of my faith. You've never spoken to me on this subject beyond these few words and my faith and what it means to me has never been fully expressed on this forum.

Blind faith is something that no one who knows me has ever accused me of. My faith is eyes wide open if its anything. I see the hypocrisy in my religion, I see the flaws in our scriptures, I condemn the corruption of our churches. Blind faith...NOT.

I put a great deal of effort into living a life worthy of my faith and trying to lead by example. BUT, you'll never find me in a church ('cept the occasional wedding or funeral) and the only time I quote scripture is to beat the sense into dogmatic and blinded sheep of the flock.

Hey. Didn't mean to offend you. I'm trying to be as respectful as possible in my posts. I was simply saying that what you described in your other post sounded like blind faith (and still does). I did not mean to assert that you are led by blind faith, but the way you worded your post seemed to imply that. What you've just said does clarify a bit but also seems to make your previous post ("Its not about logic, reason, books...") a bit null and void. If your faith was not about logic or reason, then I don't think you would acknowledge the "hypocrisy in (your) religion...the flaws in (your) scriptures...the corruption of (your) churches."

But this is what confuses many atheists, or at least me. Why if you acknowledge these aspects of your religion, do you still choose to follow it? What other hypocritical, flawed, and corrupt things do you believe in and practice?

Again, I say this respectfully. Usually tone of voice is lost in translation via the internets.

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you fail at religion if you question what another person believes or chooses to believe!

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