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What I've Learned From This Election


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#106 d-run

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:02 PM

Probably not, but I'm talking more about the feelings of voters, not politicians

#107 stirs

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:05 PM

if both parties were all about the needs of the people, would we be in the current state of affairs we are in now?


Both parties are out to do themselves good. They do this by keeping power. They do this by pitting groups against each other or buying their votes with their endless pool of money. Vote buying.

The more you can do without the government, the better off you will be.

#108 pstall

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

and nobody in the media challenges congress on their benefits/pensions etc. austerity should start THERE first. if those guys rolled up their sleeves and led the way in "shared sacrifice" then we would see a profound shift in the US.

#109 stirs

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:23 PM

agreed. it would be primarily symbolic, but good symbols from DC are definitely needed

#110 Gazi

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:46 AM

Posted Image

#111 Chimera

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:49 AM

You can't win an election by hating the incumbent more than how much you support your candidate


This.
I don't like Obama. I don't like Romney.

Perfect time to try the 5% rule for Gary Johnson.

#112 lightsout

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:58 AM

Okay, I will play.

When a party cannot inspire the electorate through future opportunities or the chance at greatness, they have to demonize the opponents. They do this by telling many groups how bad they currently have it and how it will only get worse if their opponents are elected. Hence, the war on women. Women had no clue how bad they had it until Obamas team started telling them how put upon they actually were and Romney would take them back to horse and buggy days.

Now, you have to wonder how much patronization the modern woman can take. Pretty much if voting patterns are any indication. Same with blacks. They have been a poor underacheiving group for the last 60 years and Dems have been and will continue to be the beneficiaries of their low position. All they have to do in each election cycle is to tell the black community that their woes are due to the conservatives and they fall right back in line. It does not matter that generations have never made any progress under Dems, they are victims of the right and the Dems are their only saving grace.

It happens all the time. And the Dems just keep creating more victims and more constituents. Why then, would the Dems ever want any group to "rise above"?






Or maybe, just MAYBE, the conservatives are wanting to pass legislation that take away bodily autonomy from women. Also, as far as other minorities go (or the poor, black, underachievers, as you so put it), maybe, just MAYBE, conservatives look at the poor and say "they're just not trying" and the dems simply point out, "we know it's not necessarily your fault that you're out of work and need some help".

Or, if your implication is that they can't see these things without their help, you're just ignorant to reality. Women have seen this poo going on, they're not stupid. Same for every other minority group as well as the poor (because white people do account for a rather healthy chunk of that, to say the least).


I know countless people who had families. They were laid off, their jobs gone. They have multiple kids to feed. They got food stamps and other government assistance. The minute they found a job, they, on their own, went and cut off those assistance programs and went back to work. The conservatives are seeking to cut down on those programs, thus, hurting those who simply are trying to feed themselves and their families, to get them decent healthcare, etc, just to get BY.


How dare your racist, pompous ass talk down on anybody and try to cover it up by saying they're being willfully victimized. Maybe they ARE, in fact, being victimized? If you look at the evidence, it's pretty damn convincing.


EDIT: If all of this has been covered, sorry. I started reading from the OP and caught that and had to rage a bit.

#113 King

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:15 AM

Or maybe, just MAYBE, the conservatives are wanting to pass legislation that take away bodily autonomy from women. Also, as far as other minorities go (or the poor, black, underachievers, as you so put it), maybe, just MAYBE, conservatives look at the poor and say "they're just not trying" and the dems simply point out, "we know it's not necessarily your fault that you're out of work and need some help".


I know countless people who had families. They were laid off, their jobs gone. They have multiple kids to feed. They got food stamps and other government assistance. The minute they found a job, they, on their own, went and cut off those assistance programs and went back to work. The conservatives are seeking to cut down on those programs, thus, hurting those who simply are trying to feed themselves and their families, to get them decent healthcare, etc, just to get BY.


How dare your racist, pompous ass talk down on anybody and try to cover it up by saying they're being willfully victimized. Maybe they ARE, in fact, being victimized? If you look at the evidence, it's pretty damn convincing.


EDIT: If all of this has been covered, sorry. I started reading from the OP and caught that and had to rage a bit.


Charities and soup kitchens are more than happy to give struggling families business.

What justifies the redistribution of wealth via government welfare? "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"?

#114 Gazi

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:25 AM

Does that include corporate welfare?

#115 lightsout

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:47 AM

Charities and soup kitchens are more than happy to give struggling families business.

What justifies the redistribution of wealth via government welfare? "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"?



Basically, Gazi said enough, but I'll add to it.


Charities and soup kitchens are not nearly enough. Plus, those resources are limited. The government has more than enough means (if we didn't spend literally hundreds of millions per day in wars over nothing and billions on "please, like me!" campaigns) to help IMMENSELY more than any amount of charity or soup kitchen.

Again, I'll evoke my dad's situation in the TB. He's a Vietnam-era Army vet who worked in textiles mills since he was 15. He's now 65 and has been laid off for about 3 years, once his plant closed down (2nd different one to do so) and got shipped away. So, now he's making about $24,000 a year while struggling to find any work (and trying to, mind you). My step-mom was forced to quit her job due to a medical condition (cancer) around the same time and has had no luck in finding any job since. Both are elderly, yet still VERY able to work, just not ABLE to find work. They need things. They have no hot water (hot water heater broke and can't afford to fix it) and are barely getting any groceries. Luckily, my dad can farm, but he had a deer problem and most of his late crops for winter were chewed up. Also, a series of bad storms didn't really help what was left of his good corn. My step-mother is making and selling dresses for little girls, but in this economy, she's barely making a profit in that endeavor.

So, no hot water, little food week-to-week, and struggling to pay bills in general, all while living on very little money, and not having any luck with job hunting. This is just ONE example. There are many others in worse situations who are just as honest and hard-working as my father is.



Meanwhile, in white-collar land, some guy just bought his 3rd condo to go with his 2 houses and 8 cars. He's upset because raising his taxes will hurt his chances at getting that indoor pool built by summertime.

#116 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:38 AM

charity isn't a replacement for welfare

of course all i have on my side is data, which is no match for king's faith in libertarianism and saint rand

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:47 AM

Americans would have to make at least 10 times the donations they currently give to charity to fully replace government social spending. And there is no reason to believe that people who so bitterly hate paying taxes would gladly surrender an equal amount to charity. Arguments that charities can do the job better than government are naïve - most charities are small, highly localized and ill-suited to responding to national disasters or shifting economic trends. About 90 percent of charity funds are both collected and spent locally, which means that rich communities tend to have well-funded charities, and poor communities tend to have poorly funded ones. For this reason, only 10 percent of all charitable donations are directed to the poor. Re-allocating charity donations to the communities that need them most will incur intense political opposition from the communities that fund them.

#118 Chimera

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:48 AM

Meanwhile, in white-collar land, some guy just bought his 3rd condo to go with his 2 houses and 8 cars. He's upset because raising his taxes will hurt his chances at getting that indoor pool built by summertime.


Tell your dad to get a job installing indoor pools. Or selling property to this strawman. Win-win.

Not that you would tell your dad about that job opportunity... hell, you haven't even helped him with a water heater.

#119 lightsout

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:52 AM

Tell your dad to get a job installing indoor pools. Or selling property to this strawman. Win-win.

Not that you would tell your dad about that job opportunity... hell, you haven't even helped him with a water heater.



Well, considering I would if it wasn't for this whole college deal and thus being endlessly poor myself...


Sure, my ending example was a bit extreme, but the point stands. People with well more than they need keep getting more. Oh, but they're the victims if we say "well, on second thought, let's ask you to pay just a BIT more so that people (even those that DO have jobs and just don't get paid enough to get by) can have a hot shower from time to time and food on the table, rather than eating 1 meal a day." Please, explain to me how "terrible" this.

#120 Chimera

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:59 AM

Well, considering I would if it wasn't for this whole college deal and thus being endlessly poor myself...


Sure, my ending example was a bit extreme, the point stands. People with well more than they need keep getting more. Oh, but they're the victims if we say "well, on second thought, let's ask you to pay just a BIT more so that people (even those that DO have jobs and just don't get paid enough to get by) can have a hot shower from time to time and food on the table, rather than eating 1 meal a day.


You have posts about strip clubs and your dipping habit. Somehow, I feel you want other people's money to go towards your father's hot water heater, while yours goes towards spitting in a bottle and single moms who send you home to fap at night.

I don't know man... you paint with a broad brush and I'm doing the same.


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