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2012 Los Angeles Lakers Thread


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#151 teeray

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

Amazing isn't it.
We know the problem isn't 24, he's having a career year.
Jim Buss, coaching and the rest of the roster: guilty.


There is too much talent on that roster to have one guy shooting 32 times and only making 10 shots while the rest of the team that is made up of all-stars is shooting 50%.

The problem with Kobe and many of his biggest fans is they look at his stats and say, "See he is playing good, the rest of the team stinks and coaching stinks". It isn't true. Kobe is having a good statistical year, but sometimes he hurts the team as a whole on offense because he kills ball movement and forcing defenses to move side to side.

When Kobe starts dribbling to set up a one on one move or starts rocking the ball back and forth and jab stepping, the defense doesn't have to do anything. The only way you get beat is when Kobe is making those tough shots. But it literally hurts everyone else on the offense.

Coach D'Antoni is having the same issue in LA that he had when Carmelo was healthy in NY. His offense won't work as well if one guy stops ball movement. It is not a coincidence that NY played great when Anthony was hurt and struggled once he got healthy again. And it isn't really a knock on Anthony, he just hurts that particular type of offense.

Carmelo and Kobe are great players. And great one on one players. Which is why the triangle offense worked so well through Kobe. Because it is a lot of two and three man games that cater to players with great individual talent. D'Antoni's offense has to have constant movement.

I the Lakers decide to keep D'Antoni they should trade 24. No joke.

#152 Kevin Greene

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:32 PM

There is too much talent on that roster to have one guy shooting 32 times and only making 10 shots while the rest of the team that is made up of all-stars is shooting 50%.

......

I the Lakers decide to keep D'Antoni they should trade 24. No joke.


Kobe is shooting at a .47% rate this year, not 10 of 32.
Jordan shot under .50% for his entire career if you need a benchmark.
Add 5 assists and 5 boards a game and I dont know what you want from a shooting guard.

Horrible team game plan from Antonni and inconsistent work from the rest of the roster and you have the Lakers problem.
Kobe is the same guy he always was, love em or as most do hate 'em.
What he is doing this year has been good for 5 rings in his career.

Incidentally Metta and Gasol are shooting at a .42 and .43 pace. Every time I see this Antonni game plan resulting in Metta shooting 3s I know the Lakers will never succeed in its current form.

Trade 24? I've already said in another thread Kobe may demand a trade this offseason, if it is Jim Buss' intent to move forward the next few years with Antonni you may as well blow up the entire team and at least build a roster that fits Antonni's scheme.

#153 Kevin Greene

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:45 PM

I think Jim Buss thinks Antonni will bring back Showtime.




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#154 teeray

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:03 PM

Kobe is shooting at a .47% rate this year, not 10 of 32.
Jordan shot under .50% for his entire career if you need a benchmark.
Add 5 assists and 5 boards a game and I dont know what you want from a shooting guard.

Horrible team game plan from Antonni and inconsistent work from the rest of the roster and you have the Lakers problem.
Kobe is the same guy he always was, love em or as most do hate 'em.
What he is doing this year has been good for 5 rings in his career.

Incidentally Metta and Gasol are shooting at a .42 and .43 pace. Every time I see this Antonni game plan resulting in Metta shooting 3s I know the Lakers will never succeed in its current form.

Trade 24? I've already said in another thread Kobe may demand a trade this offseason, if it is Jim Buss' intent to move forward the next few years with Antonni you may as well blow up the entire team and at least build a roster that fits Antonni's scheme.


The reason the rest of the roster is inconsistent and shooting a low percentage is, at times, because of Kobe. Antoni's game plan works if the team moves the ball. It doesn't when one guy stops ball movement to start dribbling around or rocking back and forth while jab stepping trying to get off a shot.

It is hard to get good shots, thus shoot a high percentage from the floor, when the ball does not move.

As I said earlier it is the same issue in NY last season. When Carmelo killed ball movement the entire team would struggle. It is not a coincidence that the team played better without Carmelo than with Carmelo.

And as far as comparing Kobe and Michael on FG% consider this. Kobe is having a "career year" this year. He is currently shooting .468 form the field. Michael Jordan's worst season in Chicago was .465, (in seasons where he played over 20 games). So Kobe's "career year" in FG% is on par with Jordan's worst year.

In D'Antoni's best year in Phoenix (2005) he had 5 guys who played 30 minutes or more per game. The shot distribution per game that season among the 5 players that played the most minutes:

16.7 Amare Stoudemire
15.9 Shawn Marion
14.4 Joe Johnson
13.2 Quentin Richardson
11.4 Steve Nash

What incredible balance. The 4 starters that were not the point guard all shot more than 13 times a game. The two highest were the 4 and the 5 positions. Only 4 shots per game separated the highest guy to the lowest guy in the 2,3,4, and 5 positions.

Compare that to the Lakers this season:

22.1 Kobe Bryant
11.2 Pau Gasol
11.2 MWP
10.6 Dwight Howard
8.2 Steve Nash

So when you look at the Lakers, the two guys shooting the second amount of shots per game, are both lower than the lowest of the 5 starters in Phoenix. You have ONE guy accounting for more than 1/3 of all the shots (22.1 of 63.3) taken by the starters.

That Phoenix team had some good players on it too. But they are probably less talented at every single position than the Lakers this year and they won 62 games.

Unless those numbers above change and even out to be me more like the Phoenix teams, the Lakers will struggle.

#155 Kevin Greene

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

Put a 2005 Steve Nash on the Lakers roster healthy this entire year and then what would you have?
Metta is over the hill on the down side.
Pau playing like crap.
Nash has only played in 16 games.

Kobe and a rehabbing Dwight are the only consistent players on this roster.
Antonni needs to realize that and change the teams style to fit it's strenghts.
Or, they can keep losing badly trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

#156 teeray

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:34 PM

Put a 2005 Steve Nash on the Lakers roster healthy this entire year and then what would you have?
Metta is over the hill on the down side.
Pau playing like crap.
Nash has only played in 16 games.

Kobe and a rehabbing Dwight are the only consistent players on this roster.
Antonni needs to realize that and change the teams style to fit it's strenghts.
Or, they can keep losing badly trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.


They are 5-11 in the 16 games Nash played in. 5-10 if you discount the game he got hurt in and only played 16 minutes.

Truth is, Kobe needs to adjust his game to fit the coaches proven offense. Not the other way around. Unless they go to a triangle offense or something similar they are going to struggle until there is more balance.

Basketball 101 will tell you that the number one killer in most offenses is lack of ball movement. If the ball stays on one side of the court it becomes extremely difficult to get good shots. Kobe can make tough shots, so it doesn't really affect him. Who it affects are the other 4 guys on the court.

#157 Kevin Greene

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

The Lakers simply dont have the players on their roster to be more than marginal in Antonni's offense.
Too much age, too slow, not enough shooters.

Dwight Howard is the future of this Franchise. There is no one else on this roster 2 or 3 years out you'd expect anything from.
Kobe still has a couple good years left.
The Lakers are currently showing Dwight no reason to want to stay in LA going forward this year.
Either Dwight will be gone next year and they'll have a lot of cap dollars to spend or Dwight will re-sign and the Lakers better build this roster around him.
Either way the 2013/2014 Lakers will look quite different.

You make a lot of good points teeray, I just think unless Antonni adjusts to maximize the strenghts of what he currently has on the roster this is a lost year as the Lakers dont have the right talent to adjust and make his system look good.

#158 teeray

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:31 PM

The other thing I would like to see the Lakers do if they keep D'Antoni, since obviously they aren't going to trade Kobe unless Kobe asks out. Is to trade to get a true stretch 4. Get a guy like maybe Charlie Villanueva who wouldn't cost much to get, but you can stick out in the deep corner and run that high pick and roll with Howard and have the middle of the floor wide open and have Kobe and MWP spotting up or slashing back door to the basket.

Gasol needs to go for his sake and the Lakers sake. He can stretch the defense some to maybe 15-18 feet, but in order for this offense to work you need a 4 who can shoot the three and unclog the middle.

The triangle offense is perfect for Kobe. If they do fire D'Antoni and keep Kobe they need to find a coach that can run that offense. Getting Kobe the ball at the elbow extended or in the high post on the wing is lethal. And you can run cutters off of him and if nothing comes open you have Kobe one on one at mid range and still having his dribble. That may also force a double team and gets other guys better shots.

I always felt Kobe is at his best when he is scoring through the offense organically. He is at his worst when he is trying too hard to create his own shot.

#159 YoungPanthers89

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:03 AM

lol

#160 Kevin Greene

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:12 AM

Latest Laker rumor:

Dwight Howard for Josh Smith straight up.

:lol:

#161 GamecockSmitty4

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:09 AM

lol @ Lakers

#162 ZB1224

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:09 PM

Hopefully the Lakers do trade Dwight... I can't stand him. He hardly ever tries. For some reason he demands the ball in the post just so he can get fouled and miss both FT's or get stripped. He's at his best when he's setting screens and rolling to the basket or catch lobs. His defense has been pretty awful this season as well. We thought that Bynum got lazy at times last season.... welp.

#163 thatlookseasy

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

Dwight is the guy to trade. He's got the most value, and I never got the idea of rebuilding around him anyways. He is already 27, and do you really think a guy this unskilled will age like Kareem?

Lets be honest, the Lakers have a 2-3 year title window with the current roster, I just dont see how they will rebuild quickly after Kobe, Nash, and Gasol are gone and 30 year old Dwight Howard is your only good player.

#164 ZB1224

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 03:00 PM

Dwight is the guy to trade. He's got the most value, and I never got the idea of rebuilding around him anyways. He is already 27, and do you really think a guy this unskilled will age like Kareem?

Lets be honest, the Lakers have a 2-3 year title window with the current roster, I just dont see how they will rebuild quickly after Kobe, Nash, and Gasol are gone and 30 year old Dwight Howard is your only good player.


Yeah I agree about the whole building around Dwight thing. His ENTIRE game is built off having superior athleticism; from blocking shots to scoring. He has 1 post move and it is largely ineffective (faceup, drive to his right). He really needs to be surrounded an elite PG and 3 other elite shooters. He has to have space to operate, because when he doesn't... he just gets stripped and/or shut down. You also have to run the offense through him or he won't even attempt to try to play defense or get in good post position... he's a quitter when things aren't going his way. I do not want to build around him, and quite frankly I don't even want him on the Lakers... give me back the infinitely more skilled Bynum.

#165 AggieLean.

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

Seen that Mike Conley was having a good game against the Lake Show. Opposing PG's probably get happy as hell knowing they're about to face Nash. Dude is horrible on D.
Stick a fork in the Lakers, man, they're done

Another L.


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