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89 million dollar backfield - update


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#37 Doc Holiday

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

Allow me to answer for him with some stats I posted late last night...

From the 1st half of yesterday's game...


Ratio of under center to shotgun plays: 33% vs 67%

Ratio of run plays to pass plays: 29% vs 71%

Under center run average yards per play: 4.2

Shotgun run average yards per play: 2.0

Under center pass average yards per play: 11.5

Shotgun pass average per play: 4.4


Sink in yet? Okay, let's look at our touchdown drive. During that drive, we ran 5 under center plays. We ran 1 play out of the shotgun.

So that's 1 possession with 5 under center plays resulting in a touchdown.

We had 6 other possessions in the 1st half that did not result in scores. In those 6 possessions, we ran a total of 4 plays from under center. Four.

The game started off with quick short throws, with a couple of intermediates thrown in. Cam completed his first 6 passes.


Does that answer your question Doc?

your stats are telling the truth, but you are missing it, and its starring you right in the face. Think hard and tell me what you see.

You are looking at one thing the stats are saying but not the other. It's so blatant I'm finding it very funny.

Remember the truth is in your stats, and if you figure out what I mean you just may take a step closer to actually understanding the game.

#38 Doc Holiday

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:58 PM

Here let me phrase it too you in a different way that maybe you would understand better what it is I'm getting at.

1) why would you play out of the shotgun if you were having more success early on under center?

2) why would you go deep, when early on you had success in short passing routes

3) why would you do multiple pass/hand off fakes?

See it now?

#39 Shonuff

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:11 PM

your stats are telling the truth, but you are missing it, and its starring you right in the face. Think hard and tell me what you see.

You are looking at one thing the stats are saying but not the other. It's so blatant I'm finding it very funny.

Remember the truth is in your stats, and if you figure out what I mean you just may take a step closer to actually understanding the game.


Ok, I get it, his data/stats indicate, although a small sample, that Cam (and the running game) was more successful with Cam under center. Even from an anecdoctal position, JStew and DeAngelo are much more productive out of the pro set.

Enough with the childish riddles. You're no Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs, so save the "football genious" BS for some of your clown friends who might buy into it.

Remember, the truth is in the stats, not in a make-believe-I-know-the-game-better-than-you world...lol

#40 CatMan72

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:11 PM

This is the best example of how dysfunctional this organization is/was, our GM sinks a ton of money into a backfield our OC doesn't plan to use very much.

Hopefully our next GM and coaching staff will be on the same page, Hurney should have gone out the door with Fox.

#41 Chimera

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

imo the pick 6 was more on cam, and little on lafell.. but you gotta give carter credit for making the play


I'm not sure Ben Hartsock even touched Von Miller blitzing (other than the obvious hold that wasn't called). More importantly, Byron Bell did not even react to Miller showing blitz right in his face. Cam's pass was right on the money as well as could be expected with Von Miller scooping both of Cam's knees during the throw. Carter then made a great cut on the ball.

The interception was all Denver's defense. The pressure was a result of our blockers' incompetence. Also, Robert Ayers should've been flagged for unnecessary roughness for bodyslamming DeAngelo Williams on the play.

#42 Shonuff

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:15 PM

Here let me phrase it too you in a different way that maybe you would understand better what it is I'm getting at.

1) why would you play out of the shotgun if you were having more success early on under center?

2) why would you go deep, when early on you had success in short passing routes

3) why would you do multiple pass/hand off fakes?

See it now?


No, it makes no sense...

(1) - infinity: Why would you continue to do something that doesn't work????? Yet, you had moderate success doing something else. It doesn't mean than under the center is a panacea...but let's try something that's produced moderate success for this game.....what you talking about is an ideal game plan....it's called an in-game adjustment....football pro.

#43 Doc Holiday

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

Ok, I get it, his data/stats indicate, although a small sample, that Cam (and the running game) was more successful with Cam under center. Even from an anecdoctal position, JStew and DeAngelo are much more productive out of the pro set.

Enough with the childish riddles. You're no Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs, so save the "football genious" BS for some of your clown friends who might buy into it.

Remember, the truth is in the stats, not in a make-believe-I-know-the-game-better-than-you world...lol

problem is I do know better read my last post and answer the questions and tell me I don't again. I dare you


Mwahaha

There are about 5 to 10 posters on here that I think I could have a real football discussion with them and not a "hey look at me I'm on the internets!" Post quality to it that 99% of the people on here post and think they know what their talk about. Problem is they don't even have a clue.

#44 theyhateme45

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:21 PM

I know it might be a setback to his development short-term.... But I would really like to see this whole offense scraped and move back to a fox era type of offense almost... Bring in a true lead blocking fullback. Pound the rock and setup deep play action pass for Cam (Those Deep balls would highlight Cam's strength)

Either that or go to a straight New England/Green Bay style Spread.... Give Cam the Ball and a lot more responsibility... find 3-4 playmakers on the outside, spread them out and let Cam do his thing putting most of it on him....

But it has to be one or the other... I feel our offense is stuck in between which is not good for this offense.

#45 Doc Holiday

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:22 PM

No, it makes no sense...

(1) - infinity: Why would you continue to do something that doesn't work????? Yet, you had moderate success doing something else. It doesn't mean than under the center is a panacea...but let's try something that's produced moderate success for this game.....what you talking about is an ideal game plan....it's called an in-game adjustment....football pro.

sweet Jesus thank you for proving my point!

#46 Shonuff

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:28 PM

sweet Jesus thank you for proving my point!


The point is, you have NO point...senseless dribble....but at least in your mind you're a football genious.
The Panther had a game plan...it didn't work, but had moderate success (TD) using a specific set formation. Why not stick with it?

Don't give me this -my point exactly-, because you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Famous quote from the great Mike Tyson "everybody's got a plan until they get hit in the mouth". The Panther's got hit in the mouth, yet continued to get bloodied using the same unsuccesful approach.

#47 Marguide

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:42 PM

This is for Doc...can't quote on my phone.

I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert. Apparently though, you are. So save us the trouble and give us a jump start on our football education. Surely you have at least a few gems to share with us neophytes.

Bring it Doc.

#48 Doc Holiday

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:54 PM

The point is, you have NO point...senseless dribble....but at least in your mind you're a football genious.
The Panther had a game plan...it didn't work, but had moderate success (TD) using a specific set formation. Why not stick with it?

Don't give me this -my point exactly-, because you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Famous quote from the great Mike Tyson "everybody's got a plan until they get hit in the mouth". The Panther's got hit in the mouth, yet continued to get bloodied using the same unsuccesful approach.

Ok, you think it's mindless dribble because it's way over your head.

let me answer my own question since you could not seem to understand them

1) why would you play out of the shotgun if you were having more success early on under center?

the shotgun has 1 primary goal for the QB to give him more time to pass, it's faster at giving the QB room then a 3 or 7 step drop, this is done to offset a pass rush, less effective to run out of but usually more effective to pass out of.

the Broncos Defense decided to bring the pressure up and play close forcing the Panthers to take chances down field.

Basically take out everything low make them go deep.

2) why would you go deep, when early on you had success in short passing routes

see above, the panthers one chance against the broncos after they adjusted was to go deep

3) why would you do multiple pass/hand off fakes?

Panthers WR's aren't exceptionally fast and outside of Olsen they aren't big, this is a huge issue, if you can't beat them with speed or size your just not going to beat them, unless you try to get the corner backs to bite on a pump fake or play action pass to allow your WR's a chance to get open.

this is why Olsen had a big day yesterday, and nobody else did.

basically the Panthers while having a quality WR core and 1 decent TE when faced against opposing quality defenses they just can't match up.

the Panthers Oline is in shambles and opposing defenses are having free range on cam newton, hence when you are running around all day long trying to avoid getting your head taken off you are going to have a bad day.

I was doing all of this to illustrate that there is no need to fire the OC (the original argument that got quit out of hand) because he's actually believe it or not, not doing anything wrong, he's going straight textbook play calling, you want the offense dumbed down for Cam Newton, well it already is.

and that's all I've been saying the entire time.

my ability to 1) see, and 2) understand. is why i know better then you, because I do.

if You actually thought through my questions instead of calling it mindless dribble you might be looking smarter then you do now.