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Does anyone have a reliable source inside the organization?


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#136 CatMan72

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:31 AM

How can this guy type so much stuff but know so little?


I was just thinking that myself, LOL

#137 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:46 AM

Sorry, but you're not talking yourself out of this one. You said we ran read option early in the year last
year and it fooled people, allowing Cam to put up big numbers. Find me an example from say the Arizona game, or the GB game or the Chicago game when we ran the read option. While you're at it, please note the relatively high percentage of plays run from under center.

Go ahead. Do it.


No problem. Here.

Posted Image

What do you think that is? It's not Power I, I can tell you that.

We ran it from the get go. Whether the play ended up a passing play, hand off or a keep it and run play depended on what the defense did. Against Arizona, there were rarely any instances where it called for a rush because they kept blitzing the entire game.

And I don't know the exact percentages but I can look at the play by play on ESPN.com and figure out how many times we were under center.

For example against Green Bay, by my count, we passed 68 times and 48 were out of shotgun...so only about 29% from under center and 71% out of shotgun, or pistol, if you will.

http://espn.go.com/n...918029&period=0

Feel free to click, and scan through and check the other two yourself. I have no idea where you are getting that Cam was taking a high percentage amount of snaps from under center.

I await your response...

#138 Marguide

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:04 AM

No problem. Here.

Posted Image

What do you think that is? It's not Power I, I can tell you that.

We ran it from the get go. Whether the play ended up a passing play, hand off or a keep it and run play depended on what the defense did. Against Arizona, there were rarely any instances where it called for a rush because they kept blitzing the entire game.

And I don't know the exact percentages but I can look at the play by play on ESPN.com and figure out how many times we were under center.

For example against Green Bay, by my count, we passed 68 times and 48 were out of shotgun...so only about 29% from under center and 71% out of shotgun, or pistol, if you will.

http://espn.go.com/n...918029&period=0

Feel free to click, and scan through and check the other two yourself. I have no idea where you are getting that Cam was taking a high percentage amount of snaps from under center.

I await your response...


Review our first drive against Green Bay. We ran 9 plays from under center. 2 of those were called back for illegal formation. So make it 7 official plays. 3 plays were run out of the gun.

Maybe you remember the drive...we had to score twice due to our formation problems. Cam passed to Olsen in the end zone but it got called back. He then hit LaFell in the back of the end zone for the TD.

Last year, we typically ran 70% or slightly less out of the gun. I'm not sure of our current number for this year, but as of a few games ago we were over 80%. I think you will find that many of our successful drives featured a high % of plays from under center with 2 TE's. Again, a good example from this year is our first scoring drive against Denver. So those that say Cam can't run a traditional pro offense are just flat wrong, and the fact we do not run it more is why so many people are upset with Chud.

As to your photo, that is a typical shotgun formation. That says nothing about read option. Peyton Manning uses that same formation frequently, but he has never run the read option to my knowledge. A handoff to a back out of the gun does not equal read option.

#139 Gucci Mane

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:10 AM

The read option is a play type..not a formation. You have two options, and you read the backside DE.

#140 TheRed

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:10 AM

Not this thread too.. Does this guy not sleep?

#141 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:42 AM

Review our first drive against Green Bay. We ran 9 plays from under center. 2 of those were called back for illegal formation. So make it 7 official plays. 3 plays were run out of the gun.

Maybe you remember the drive...we had to score twice due to our formation problems. Cam passed to Olsen in the end zone but it got called back. He then hit LaFell in the back of the end zone for the TD.

Last year, we typically ran 70% or slightly less out of the gun. I'm not sure of our current number for this year, but as of a few games ago we were over 80%. I think you will find that many of our successful drives featured a high % of plays from under center with 2 TE's. Again, a good example from this year is our first scoring drive against Denver. So those that say Cam can't run a traditional pro offense are just flat wrong, and the fact we do not run it more is why so many people are upset with Chud.

As to your photo, that is a typical shotgun formation. That says nothing about read option. Peyton Manning uses that same formation frequently, but he has never run the read option to my knowledge. A handoff to a back out of the gun does not equal read option.



That's our basic pistol formation and it is a read option formation. Newton has the option to pass, hand off the ball to one of the two RB's on his side, or keep it himself...on every single one of those formations we run unless the coaches design it a particular way. Cam will read the defense, then make a decision on which direction of his 3 options he's going to go. Pass, run or keep. That's all the read option means.

In the end they are all the same in concept. The entire idea is the 1 man rushing advantage you gain by having a dual threat quarterback, as well as the benefit of beating the blitz pretty easily.

And you should go back and read more carefully what I said. It had less to do with what formation he is in. Whether he is under center or in shotgun, the issue is him reading coverages fast enough, and throwing with anticipation to a designated point in his receiver's route.

What I said was the read option makes it easier, and he has relied on that primarily because it often gives way to wide open receivers. It's really easy to figure out who to throw to when your guy is wiiiiiide open right? Spread option offenses makes quarterbacking really easy when it works. But it becomes a lot harder when it gets shut down, and you have to properly read the defense, locate your best match up, and throw with anticipation before your receiver even gets to that spot.

And my point was, if he has trouble doing it out of the pistol or shotgun, there is no question he has trouble doing it from under center. It's common sense that it is harder. It requires more steps. You have to do your drop steps back, sometimes it requires that you turn your back to the defense to fake a hand off, pull off play action, then turn back again....and finally you still have do all the things you have to do from the pistol of shotgun anyway. All the things I explained above, still apply. There's just even more to deal with.

But just for the record in today's NFL, nobody's really killing the Power I anymore either. Most NFL offenses today are in shotgun over 50% of the time running some sort of spread option or West Coast offense.

#142 Gabeking

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:52 AM

Not this thread too.. Does this guy not sleep?


Of course not he's this guy

Posted Image

#143 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:55 AM

Oh look Dumb and Dumber showed up to add nothing to this thread and complain about the same guy they followed around yesterday.

#144 Gabeking

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:19 AM

Oh look Dumb and Dumber showed up to add nothing to this thread and complain about the same guy they followed around yesterday.


You're just too easy lol

#145 rayzor

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:29 PM

Not this thread too.. Does this guy not sleep?

he does it in every thread...just like he did before he was banned a million times (well, him and his alts that all he has to do is make up a fake email address because they don't verify).

every thread he goes into he will turn into the same discussion. he is a troll of the highest (or lowest) order.

#146 Marguide

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:41 PM

That's our basic pistol formation and it is a read option formation. Newton has the option to pass, hand off the ball to one of the two RB's on his side, or keep it himself...on every single one of those formations we run unless the coaches design it a particular way. Cam will read the defense, then make a decision on which direction of his 3 options he's going to go. Pass, run or keep. That's all the read option means.

In the end they are all the same in concept. The entire idea is the 1 man rushing advantage you gain by having a dual threat quarterback, as well as the benefit of beating the blitz pretty easily.


I don't know why I bother but maybe I'm bored. It seems you are a bit confused about the pistol and the read option.

A pistol formation is one in which the QB typically does not line up quite as deep as the shotgun, maybe 4 yards deep instead of 6 or 7, and the back lines up behind the QB. We have very, very rarely run that type formation.

The read option is a run play in which the QB and back move together, both with their hands on the ball, while the QB reads a particular D-lineman, typically the DE. Depending on the position of the D-lineman, the QB either keeps the ball or lets go of it and the RB takes it.

The more you know...

#147 rayzor

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:16 PM

I don't know why I bother but maybe I'm bored. It seems you are a bit confused about the pistol and the read option.

A pistol formation is one in which the QB typically does not line up quite as deep as the shotgun, maybe 4 yards deep instead of 6 or 7, and the back lines up behind the QB. We have very, very rarely run that type formation.

The read option is a run play in which the QB and back move together, both with their hands on the ball, while the QB reads a particular D-lineman, typically the DE. Depending on the position of the D-lineman, the QB either keeps the ball or lets go of it and the RB takes it.

The more you know...

lol


anyway, imo, we should be running the pistol formation more.

#148 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

I don't know why I bother but maybe I'm bored. It seems you are a bit confused about the pistol and the read option.

A pistol formation is one in which the QB typically does not line up quite as deep as the shotgun, maybe 4 yards deep instead of 6 or 7, and the back lines up behind the QB. We have very, very rarely run that type formation.

The read option is a run play in which the QB and back move together, both with their hands on the ball, while the QB reads a particular D-lineman, typically the DE. Depending on the position of the D-lineman, the QB either keeps the ball or lets go of it and the RB takes it.

The more you know...


Jesus F Christ! It's been on the page all day long. Can you count?

Posted Image
The 10 yard line is 7 yards back. There is nobody 6 yards back.

Here is another look....

Posted Image

Pistol, pistol, pistol. Empty line is at 6 yards. Williams is on the 7th. Cam has his foot on the line that is 4 yards back!

Not that it really matters since how many yards back has less to do with it and it has more to do with where the running back is. Behind or beside but that is beside the point. People still refer to it as the pistol even when they are lined up in front. You asked me for one example and I gave you plenty. You claimed we were running a high percentage number of snaps from under center early last year, I showed you that was not the case.

Also the read option is just what they refer to the run play out of the double option which we have been doing all the time since the beginning of last year Anytime Cam runs instead of throws out of this formation, it's some variation of the read option. We both know you didn't actually mean we run the same play 24/7 and your complaint was that he should be lining up more from under center because you believed he was doing it at a "high percentage" and it was more successful.

You are splitting hairs right now.


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