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TonyN

The Myth of Cam Newton under pressure dispelled

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you said QBs could win w/ a INT % over 3.0. You said to name 1. I named many.

Fact still remains, there are 2 ways to win.

1. Play 3 phases of football.

2. Have an elite all time great QB who carries a team.

We have a young QB, 1 is the only option. 2 has never been option, even for the great QBs when they where young.

You can change what you want to argue 10x, doesn't change this reality.

No one could be efficient doing what Carolina asks of Newton 25 games into their career.....THAT is a reality you simply choose to avoid.

What exactly do you believe Newton is being asked to do in Carolina that Ryan Tannenhill, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin 3rd, Andy Dalton, Wilson, etc, etc, etc isn't?

Maybe Wilson has an amazing defense, but you think the Bengals, Colts have that much better a team than we do? Miami? Have you seen Miami's receivers?

Efficiency has less to do with what he's running and more to do with execution. And I did state from the get go that the only QB's who are getting that done are usually behind elite defenses. Either way it's an exception to the rule. It's winning the hard way. And there's usually something else going on there. Like for example, how about 4th quarter comebacks? Winning QBs who turn the ball over tend to find themselves in those situations late in the 4th quarter. Eli, Brees, Ben...check their stats. Check their 4th Q comeback wins. Even Garrard. Look at his 2010 season where he went 8-6. 5 of his 8 wins came on the back of 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives. You realize that? So where is the silver lining for our guy? Sure as hell isn't there.

If you are bad in that category and still winning, something has to give. So look closer. Something or someone is making up for it. Whether you are like Ben or Eli and are a clutch closer, or you have a hell of a defense, there is something that goes along with that, else you are not winning. And once again, even when you are, it's usually despite your play.

Personally I think our defense is pretty solid this year. And if you are referring to offensive scheme, personally I do not believe Chud is incapable of putting together a generic, conventional NFL offense if he believed Cam would have more success running it. I believe we're running the read option to exploit the 1 man advantage and because of Cam's issue as a drop back passer. The read option puts less emphasis on reading defenses and more emphasis on the other team's inability to cover your extra man. Why do you think that is?

Look you can change the offense. You can change the GM. You can fire your ST coach. You can fire Rivera(and we should). You can add receivers. This team is screwed until Cam Newton learns how to play NFL QB. Game management. 4th quarter comebacks. Efficiency. Reading defenses. Late game composure. Etc...

Not asking him to carry the team. But I can ask him not to hurt the team. He still needs to pass in all areas in order for him to achieve that. And right now he has too many holes in too many categories. Anyway I'm done arguing about it man. It's the same old same old. If you don't like stats, like the fact he's 27th in NFL passer rating, or 31st in Total QBR, or efficiency or whatever....just do the eye test when he's in the pocket dropping back to pass. He doesn't pass that either.

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Guest Tom Cat

What exactly do you believe Newton is being asked to do in Carolina that Ryan Tannenhill, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin 3rd, Andy Dalton, Wilson, etc, etc, etc isn't?

Maybe Wilson has an amazing defense, but you think the Bengals, Colts have that much better a team than we do? Miami? Have you seen Miami's receivers?

Efficiency has less to do with what he's running and more to do with execution. And I did state from the get go that the only QB's who are getting that done are usually behind elite defenses. Either way it's an exception to the rule. It's winning the hard way. And there's usually something else going on there. Like for example, how about 4th quarter comebacks? Winning QBs who turn the ball over tend to find themselves in those situations late in the 4th quarter. Eli, Brees, Ben...check their stats. Check their 4th Q comeback wins. Even Garrard. Look at his 2010 season where he went 8-6. 5 of his 8 wins came on the back of 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives. You realize that? So where is the silver lining for our guy? Sure as hell isn't there.

If you are bad in that category and still winning, something has to give. So look closer. Something or someone is making up for it. Whether you are like Ben or Eli and are a clutch closer, or you have a hell of a defense, there is something that goes along with that, else you are not winning. And once again, even when you are, it's usually despite your play.

Personally I think our defense is pretty solid this year. And if you are referring to offensive scheme, personally I do not believe Chud is incapable of putting together a generic, conventional NFL offense if he believed Cam would have more success running it. I believe we're running the read option to exploit the 1 man advantage and because of Cam's issue as a drop back passer. The read option puts less emphasis on reading defenses and more emphasis on the other team's inability to cover your extra man. Why do you think that is?

Look you can change the offense. You can change the GM. You can fire your ST coach. You can fire Rivera(and we should). You can add receivers. This team is screwed until Cam Newton learns how to play NFL QB. Game management. 4th quarter comebacks. Efficiency. Reading defenses. Late game composure. Etc...

Not asking him to carry the team. But I can ask him not to hurt the team. He still needs to pass in all areas in order for him to achieve that. And right now he has too many holes in too many categories. Anyway I'm done arguing about it man. It's the same old same old. If you don't like stats, like the fact he's 27th in NFL passer rating, or 31st in Total QBR, or efficiency or whatever....just do the eye test when he's in the pocket dropping back to pass. He doesn't pass that either.

this post doesnt pass the huddle ignoramus test

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The "Myth" is that Cam Newton is under radically more pressure than almost all other QB's in the NFL. This is just not true, even using your statistics. I never said that Carolina's offensive line was one of the best in the NFL. Far from it. I like to stick with official NFL stats...sorry, I'm old school. That is why I used "hits"...because I believe it actually gives a very good indication of how often a QB just has to unload the football before he is sacked. You can add hits and sacks together and it still gives a very accurate representation of where Carolina stacks up.

As far as the bottom 10 being "nearly indistinguishable (outside of AZ...clearly the worst in the NFL by far...and yet Kevin Kolb has better numbers than Cam Newton, but that is another story), I simply stated it because it is true. Look at the numbers.

I stated that several teams had (according to your numbers) fewer pressures than Carolina. It is true.

I pointed out who several of those teams were.

I then pointed out several teams whose numbers are virtually identical to Carolina's. Once again it is true. More pressures, true, but VERY, VERY few more.

The chart you posted is available for everyone to see.

There can be no subterfuge on my part.

By the rationale of the majority of the posters on this forum Cam Newton should, at least, have better numbers than Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford and Blaine Gabbert...yet, mysteriously, he does not....I will not even get into a conversation about the fact that (according to your numbers) rookie Andrew Luck has been pressured almost exactly the same amount as Newton...it is too easy...and too painful....

.

Disagree about hits. We are essentially basing 15 or so plays out of 300 do judge a line's performance. I don't see how that's wise.

Look at the top ten worst lines. Only Ryan, a elite 5+ year pro is excelling. All the others are at best, underperforming and at worst horrid. This is not a coincidence. The fact that Newton (who is 1 1/2 into his career with a poor line and underperforming ground game) isn't distancing himself from certain Qbs at this point, isn't worrisome yet, given the situation that he's in.

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What exactly do you believe Newton is being asked to do in Carolina that Ryan Tannenhill, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin 3rd, Andy Dalton, Wilson, etc, etc, etc isn't?

Maybe Wilson has an amazing defense, but you think the Bengals, Colts have that much better a team than we do? Miami? Have you seen Miami's receivers?

Efficiency has less to do with what he's running and more to do with execution. And I did state from the get go that the only QB's who are getting that done are usually behind elite defenses. Either way it's an exception to the rule. It's winning the hard way. And there's usually something else going on there. Like for example, how about 4th quarter comebacks? Winning QBs who turn the ball over tend to find themselves in those situations late in the 4th quarter. Eli, Brees, Ben...check their stats. Check their 4th Q comeback wins. Even Garrard. Look at his 2010 season where he went 8-6. 5 of his 8 wins came on the back of 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives. You realize that? So where is the silver lining for our guy? Sure as hell isn't there.

If you are bad in that category and still winning, something has to give. So look closer. Something or someone is making up for it. Whether you are like Ben or Eli and are a clutch closer, or you have a hell of a defense, there is something that goes along with that, else you are not winning. And once again, even when you are, it's usually despite your play.

Personally I think our defense is pretty solid this year. And if you are referring to offensive scheme, personally I do not believe Chud is incapable of putting together a generic, conventional NFL offense if he believed Cam would have more success running it. I believe we're running the read option to exploit the 1 man advantage and because of Cam's issue as a drop back passer. The read option puts less emphasis on reading defenses and more emphasis on the other team's inability to cover your extra man. Why do you think that is?

Look you can change the offense. You can change the GM. You can fire your ST coach. You can fire Rivera(and we should). You can add receivers. This team is screwed until Cam Newton learns how to play NFL QB. Game management. 4th quarter comebacks. Efficiency. Reading defenses. Late game composure. Etc...

Not asking him to carry the team. But I can ask him not to hurt the team. He still needs to pass in all areas in order for him to achieve that. And right now he has too many holes in too many categories. Anyway I'm done arguing about it man. It's the same old same old. If you don't like stats, like the fact he's 27th in NFL passer rating, or 31st in Total QBR, or efficiency or whatever....just do the eye test when he's in the pocket dropping back to pass. He doesn't pass that either.

Tell me which of those QBs have RBs that have provided zero yards in a game this year.....whose RBs average 60 yards a game on the ground for them?

Cam is asked to be an offense after only a rookie season.....name a QB in NFL history asked to provide the offense Cam is at this stage of his career....

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If you need stats in order to form your own opinion because you can't do it yourself with your own two eyes, then you are nothing more than a robotic imbecile that can't think for himself with very little knowledge of what is really going on. It isn't rocket science. Anyone that is football knowledgeable, or at least has a brain, can see with their own two eyes that Cam has very little time to set his feet and make throws most of the time. You don't need stats to tell you that.

Dumbest statement I have ever heard. The numbers say Cam has time. But you refuse to accept it because it does not support your biases.

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Updated OL rankings - 31st in run blocking / 24th in pass protection

WTF SCAM

Here is a somewhat different take...clearly not "good"...clearly not a team "strength"...but bad enough to make a "good quarterback" look like Blaine Gabbert or Mark Sanchez...NO WAY...

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&qualified=true&role=TM&tabSeq=2

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Here is a somewhat different take...clearly not "good"...clearly not a team "strength"...but bad enough to make a "good quarterback" look like Blaine Gabbert or Mark Sanchez...NO WAY...

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&qualified=true&role=TM&tabSeq=2

Yeah, um.....that singular stat line doesn't make the argument you keep thinking it does.

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