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The Myth of Cam Newton under pressure dispelled


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#101 iamcline

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:29 AM

Newton needs to throw the ball...not hold on to it for 20 minutes.

#102 Brandon

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:31 AM

Basically Cam's decision making is slow, or he is waiting for a long pass route to develop, or his receivers struggle to open quickly. Cam has just 109 drop backs where he spent less than 2.5 seconds in the pocket that's easily the least amount in the NFL. He hasn't been sacked once in that time. All his sacks have come when he has held onto the ball for longer than 2.5 seconds.


After watching some tape, it's becoming pretty obvious that our receivers are having a hard time getting off the ball and taking a LONG time to get open. Smitty especially has been suffering in this area, he just doesn't have the burst off the line that really gave defensive backs fits for so long.

The other issue is that for some reason we have almost no timing plays called, but the ones we do he seems to have success with. It seems like Chud/Rivera don't trust him with those sort of throws, but only exacerbating the issue by calling a lot of unnecessary deep routes in awkward situations.

#103 I Mean He Was Found Guilty

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:23 AM

so just keeping track here:

is YPP still the super duper ultimate end-all, be-all stat or is it INT % now

#104 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:16 AM

You keep changing your arguement.

You said name one QB, I gave you several including the Superbowl champ.

Now you shift focus to well, just post season INT %. Then it is positive TD ratio.

The fact you seem to continue to ignore is teams that play all 3 phases compete and can win. That is what we lack..... instead of thinking a 2nd year player should be Brady in his prime and carry his team.

QB play isn't why we havent won in 2011 and 2012. Playing one phase per season is. You play 3 phases with a young QB.....we just haven't.



Because to look at efficiency you need both. Possessions and scoring efficiency. Newton has more of a problem with interceptions so I focused on the main problem. You mentioned superbowl, which is why I mentioned post season. Two of those guys you listed, Eli and Brees step up their game in the post season. They can't win Superbowl either without becoming efficient in the post season. Look at their post season stats.

Eli - 2.2%, 2.1 TD/TO
Brees - 1.0%, 5.5 TD/TO

That's pretty efficient.

And of course you need all 3 phases to win, but when your primary ball handler that touches the ball on every single possession is inefficient, you're just not going to win many football games. Unless, as I stated, you have an elite defense. And in that case, you are winning despite your QB. Not because of him. If you're going to put it on your defense or other parts of your team, then what you need is a game manager, not a gunslinger. That's like your team having a dead weight they need to carry.

#105 tiger7_88

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:24 AM

I made a thread in my first week on this fourm stating that Cam Newton needed to be treated like Alex Smith.


By this I assume you mean to continue to start him, support him, build the team around him that will support him, and finally hire a coaching staff that understands how to utilize him?

#106 Actionman0z

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:52 AM

my eyes show me that more times than some fans are willing to admit, newton is holding onto the ball too long.

my mouth screams what my eyes show me.

my son's ears can verify the information that my eyes and mouth relay.


So can my girlfriend.
  • CRA PIE'd this

#107 CRA

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:52 AM

Because to look at efficiency you need both. Possessions and scoring efficiency. Newton has more of a problem with interceptions so I focused on the main problem. You mentioned superbowl, which is why I mentioned post season. Two of those guys you listed, Eli and Brees step up their game in the post season. They can't win Superbowl either without becoming efficient in the post season. Look at their post season stats.

Eli - 2.2%, 2.1 TD/TO
Brees - 1.0%, 5.5 TD/TO

That's pretty efficient.

And of course you need all 3 phases to win, but when your primary ball handler that touches the ball on every single possession is inefficient, you're just not going to win many football games. Unless, as I stated, you have an elite defense. And in that case, you are winning despite your QB. Not because of him. If you're going to put it on your defense or other parts of your team, then what you need is a game manager, not a gunslinger. That's like your team having a dead weight they need to carry.


you said QBs could win w/ a INT % over 3.0. You said to name 1. I named many.

Fact still remains, there are 2 ways to win.

1. Play 3 phases of football.

2. Have an elite all time great QB who carries a team.

We have a young QB, 1 is the only option. 2 has never been option, even for the great QBs when they where young.

You can change what you want to argue 10x, doesn't change this reality.

No one could be efficient doing what Carolina asks of Newton 25 games into their career.....THAT is a reality you simply choose to avoid.

#108 csx

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:02 PM

I have not read through this but Pro football focus has an "Under Pressure" ratings system. I don't know the details as I just glanced at it but it rates Newton as second to last of the starters.

#109 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:28 PM

you said QBs could win w/ a INT % over 3.0. You said to name 1. I named many.

Fact still remains, there are 2 ways to win.

1. Play 3 phases of football.

2. Have an elite all time great QB who carries a team.

We have a young QB, 1 is the only option. 2 has never been option, even for the great QBs when they where young.

You can change what you want to argue 10x, doesn't change this reality.

No one could be efficient doing what Carolina asks of Newton 25 games into their career.....THAT is a reality you simply choose to avoid.



What exactly do you believe Newton is being asked to do in Carolina that Ryan Tannenhill, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin 3rd, Andy Dalton, Wilson, etc, etc, etc isn't?

Maybe Wilson has an amazing defense, but you think the Bengals, Colts have that much better a team than we do? Miami? Have you seen Miami's receivers?

Efficiency has less to do with what he's running and more to do with execution. And I did state from the get go that the only QB's who are getting that done are usually behind elite defenses. Either way it's an exception to the rule. It's winning the hard way. And there's usually something else going on there. Like for example, how about 4th quarter comebacks? Winning QBs who turn the ball over tend to find themselves in those situations late in the 4th quarter. Eli, Brees, Ben...check their stats. Check their 4th Q comeback wins. Even Garrard. Look at his 2010 season where he went 8-6. 5 of his 8 wins came on the back of 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives. You realize that? So where is the silver lining for our guy? Sure as hell isn't there.

If you are bad in that category and still winning, something has to give. So look closer. Something or someone is making up for it. Whether you are like Ben or Eli and are a clutch closer, or you have a hell of a defense, there is something that goes along with that, else you are not winning. And once again, even when you are, it's usually despite your play.

Personally I think our defense is pretty solid this year. And if you are referring to offensive scheme, personally I do not believe Chud is incapable of putting together a generic, conventional NFL offense if he believed Cam would have more success running it. I believe we're running the read option to exploit the 1 man advantage and because of Cam's issue as a drop back passer. The read option puts less emphasis on reading defenses and more emphasis on the other team's inability to cover your extra man. Why do you think that is?

Look you can change the offense. You can change the GM. You can fire your ST coach. You can fire Rivera(and we should). You can add receivers. This team is screwed until Cam Newton learns how to play NFL QB. Game management. 4th quarter comebacks. Efficiency. Reading defenses. Late game composure. Etc...

Not asking him to carry the team. But I can ask him not to hurt the team. He still needs to pass in all areas in order for him to achieve that. And right now he has too many holes in too many categories. Anyway I'm done arguing about it man. It's the same old same old. If you don't like stats, like the fact he's 27th in NFL passer rating, or 31st in Total QBR, or efficiency or whatever....just do the eye test when he's in the pocket dropping back to pass. He doesn't pass that either.

#110 Guest_Tom Cat_*

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:59 PM

What exactly do you believe Newton is being asked to do in Carolina that Ryan Tannenhill, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin 3rd, Andy Dalton, Wilson, etc, etc, etc isn't?

Maybe Wilson has an amazing defense, but you think the Bengals, Colts have that much better a team than we do? Miami? Have you seen Miami's receivers?

Efficiency has less to do with what he's running and more to do with execution. And I did state from the get go that the only QB's who are getting that done are usually behind elite defenses. Either way it's an exception to the rule. It's winning the hard way. And there's usually something else going on there. Like for example, how about 4th quarter comebacks? Winning QBs who turn the ball over tend to find themselves in those situations late in the 4th quarter. Eli, Brees, Ben...check their stats. Check their 4th Q comeback wins. Even Garrard. Look at his 2010 season where he went 8-6. 5 of his 8 wins came on the back of 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives. You realize that? So where is the silver lining for our guy? Sure as hell isn't there.

If you are bad in that category and still winning, something has to give. So look closer. Something or someone is making up for it. Whether you are like Ben or Eli and are a clutch closer, or you have a hell of a defense, there is something that goes along with that, else you are not winning. And once again, even when you are, it's usually despite your play.

Personally I think our defense is pretty solid this year. And if you are referring to offensive scheme, personally I do not believe Chud is incapable of putting together a generic, conventional NFL offense if he believed Cam would have more success running it. I believe we're running the read option to exploit the 1 man advantage and because of Cam's issue as a drop back passer. The read option puts less emphasis on reading defenses and more emphasis on the other team's inability to cover your extra man. Why do you think that is?

Look you can change the offense. You can change the GM. You can fire your ST coach. You can fire Rivera(and we should). You can add receivers. This team is screwed until Cam Newton learns how to play NFL QB. Game management. 4th quarter comebacks. Efficiency. Reading defenses. Late game composure. Etc...

Not asking him to carry the team. But I can ask him not to hurt the team. He still needs to pass in all areas in order for him to achieve that. And right now he has too many holes in too many categories. Anyway I'm done arguing about it man. It's the same old same old. If you don't like stats, like the fact he's 27th in NFL passer rating, or 31st in Total QBR, or efficiency or whatever....just do the eye test when he's in the pocket dropping back to pass. He doesn't pass that either.


this post doesnt pass the huddle ignoramus test


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