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The Myth of Cam Newton under pressure dispelled


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#46 TonyN

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:47 PM

I won't and can't argue, that Newton doesn't hold the ball more then most. A recent Pff article proves as much. However, the argument in this thread is the performance of the line. And the statistics show they leave much to be desired.


I have never argued that the Carolina offensive line was "good". Far from it.

But it is NOT the worst in the NFL.

And Cam Newton's problems cannot be wholly or even mainly blamed on it.

It is football and many factors are in play, obviously.

It just gets my goat a little when I see "jailbreak on every play", "worst offensive line in football", "stupidist coaching staff ever assembled", etc, etc, repeated by the members of this forum...all in defense of a second year quarterback who is playing VERY poorly at this point in his career and compounding that poor play with incredilby bad judgement off the field...

#47 CRA

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:48 PM

I have never argued that the Carolina offensive line was "good". Far from it.

But it is NOT the worst in the NFL.

And Cam Newton's problems cannot be wholly or even mainly blamed on it.

It is football and many factors are in play, obviously.

It just gets my goat a little when I see "jailbreak on every play", "worst offensive line in football", "stupidist coaching staff ever assembled", etc, etc, repeated by the members of this forum...all in defense of a second year quarterback who is playing VERY poorly at this point in his career and compounding that poor play with incredilby bad judgement off the field...


Look at the rushing numbers of our RBs vs the league......and tell me again this coaching staff and OL aren't comically awful.

#48 Marguide

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:49 PM

It is not "NUTS" to point out how poorly your second year quarterback is playing when a reactionary fan base is screaming for everyone's head EXCEPT his...


That's not what I see.

I see a rather large group of people, largely made up of those that hated the selection of Newton in the first place, trying to pin the majority of our problems on him. And that's the part that gets me. They disappear when he plays well, and they come out in force when he has a bad game.

My stance is based on the fact that no one is playing well on offense. No one. Byron Bell has looked much better, and Olsen's had his moments, but that's it. When one whole side of the ball is underperforming (both run game and passing game) that's not the QB. That is coaching and scheme. Unless of course you think we have the worst players in the league on O and I don't believe that.

#49 teeray

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

It's really quite funny how paranoid and delusional you have become Teeray. Been having a blast reading some of your posts here every now and then, even noticed someone follow me around other forums and copying my posts to put them here. It's especially funny accusing numerous new posters that disagree with you, of being me. So let me just speak up for Tony. He's not me no matter how bad you want him to be!

Ask Zod. Or any of the other mods. They have IP addresses. TonyN has his own mind and it just happens to disagree with you. Stop using your same old tricks of turning others on posters like TonyN who disagree with you.

And for the record, the forum didn't fail for any other reason other than the fact I realized I'm just not as big enough of a fan of the Panthers to support this team at times like this and have much respect for Zod for putting up with it, and especially with posters, like you!

Just not cut out for it.

But seriously, you need something else other than your typical trolling behavior to stir up your buddies and gang up on unsuspecting new members. It's sad. Haven't you noticed a lot of the good, old time, posters disappeared? Mav, TRD, etc....gone....why do you think that is? They gave up on your bullshit routine.

PS: Did you check this team's offensive efficency this year btw? 26th...and dropping. 28th net overall. What? Having a problem blaming it all on the defense this year?



You mean the all important YPP stat that we finished 12th overall in last year and still went 6-10? How did that work out for you?

And it wouldn't be the first time you created multiple accounts so you would have someone agree with you.

Your forum failed because it was you and 5 other accounts that you yourself created so you could agree with yourself.

And welcome back. If you really had read what I have written you haven't seen a full throated defense of the offense. I have said that it is part of the maturation process that literally every QB in history sans Tom Brady has had to go through.

Glad you are back though. Honestly I just thought you would be here sooner to spout off your typical nonsense

#50 TonyN

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:52 PM

I'll give you some advice TonyN. Don't try to argue stats with that guy. Not only does he have an issue actually understanding them, but he will shamelessly try to change the definitions or acknowledge others to suit his argument.

Then he will have 4-5 of his buddies call you many different names and try to bash you into submission.

Take my word for it. Save yourself the time. Not worth it.



Thanks for the advice.

I will take it.

I largely answered the question last week in a post anyway...

Carolina running backs are averaging 5+ yards per carry while running out of the zone read...

EVERYBODY'S red herring....

#51 teeray

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:53 PM

I'll give you some advice TonyN. Don't try to argue stats with that guy. Not only does he have an issue actually understanding them, but he will shamelessly try to change the definitions or acknowledge others to suit his argument.

Then he will have 4-5 of his buddies call you many different names and try to bash you into submission.

Take my word for it. Save yourself the time. Not worth it.

Coming from the guy who constantly pimped stats that he didn't even understand, know how they were calculated, or what they meant.

#52 YoungPanthers89

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:55 PM

my god noooooo ughhhh

#53 TheRed

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:55 PM

So called fans showing up after months of being dormant really expect everyone to agree with their ignorance?

#54 Mage

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:56 PM

Heres more on that from pff....

Heres a brand new sortable stat they have "called time in the pocket"

Cam has the 3rd most time of any qb to throw at an average of 3.04 seconds per snap. Granted that stat could be skewed by his scrambling ability.

He's 11th in the league in most time to throw before being sacked at 3.52 seconds.

4th in the league before deciding to scramble at 5.46 seconds

Number 1 in percentage of plays with 2.6 or more seconds to throw (65%) and conversely has the smallest percent of snaps with less than 2.5 seconds to throw(35%)

He holds onto the ball the 3rd longest at 2.77 seconds per attempt


This is incredibly misleading. I read that same link from PFF that you did. Look at the QBs who have the longest time to throw. All of them are mobile QBs. At the bottom of the list? Immobile QBs.

This stat does not take into account if QB is running away from pressure. Mobile QBs naturally hold the ball longer than immobile ones because the latter cannot escape pressure like the former can.

#55 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:58 PM

You mean the all important YPP stat that we finished 12th overall in last year and still went 6-10? How did that work out for you?

And it wouldn't be the first time you created multiple accounts so you would have someone agree with you.

Your forum failed because it was you and 5 other accounts that you yourself created so you could agree with yourself.

And welcome back. If you really had read what I have written you haven't seen a full throated defense of the offense. I have said that it is part of the maturation process that literally every QB in history sans Tom Brady has had to go through.

Glad you are back though. Honestly I just thought you would be here sooner to spout off your typical nonsense



I know it's hard for you to understand this, but anytime someone tries to start a forum, it usually beings the same way. It was up for 2 weeks.

Our offense ended up high because of the last 5 games blowing up very bad teams like Tampa Bay. The stat is heavily impacted by the most recent 3 games. At this point last season, it was just as inefficient even when we COULD put up points and yards. Same story this year. Nothing changed.

Tom Brady was an efficient game manager first. Then became a high power QB. Big difference from Cam Newton, and you should never, ever, EVER mention the 2 in the same sentence again.

Our QB has no clue how to manage a football game. Neither does our coach. Two years later he has the same issue I told you he had in week 4 of last year. He is missing the basics. And he self implodes. Especially in the 4th quarter. What is he now? 0-13 when throwing picks?

I think stats are no longer necessary to notice the issues. Eye test is enough at this point. And I'm not back. Just wanted to save another poster from your paranoid and baseless accusations.

Take care.

#56 pstall

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:59 PM

i treat stats like pistachios. i do love to gobble them up, but only after cracking the shell first.

i have been shying away from digging too far into stats this season because I'm trying to understand body language and ebb and flow and the intangibles. if you listen to what people are saying who are either watching the game at home or at the stadium, things begin to open up.
from the qb/coaches relationships to interaction on the bench.

i think the coaches are trying to run more plays from under center due to it being able to disguise the play much better than an empty backfield. well, this is something new for cam to adjust too. if you try to go deep alot, doing that from under center with a good pass rush is hard to do.
the screen seemed to work well early and den adjusted and the panthers went to i don't really know what in their playbook.

today's nfl you need to to do a couple of things extremely well. 1 is throw from a two or 3 step drop muy pronto with BOTH your feet set.2 throw accurately or deeply from the pocket. 3 buy time to extend the play or simply throw it away to avoid the sack.
the best in the biz do those 3 all game every game.

zod mentioned something today about the coaches treating cam with kid gloves. that is a tightrope. on one hand you have a guy you are paying a ton of money too. you also have a guy that is the qb and the offense goes through him. to be able to kick him in the rear when he needs but the bigger balance of encouragement and listening has to be there as well.
if anyone has ever coached kids from middle school up you know what i'm talking about. you can't treat each kid exactly the same. some love to hear where they need to improve and others fold like a lawn chair when they are criticized.

personally i just think its all of the above and all the film is on cam and no team is going to do anything other than what they see on film until cam and the panthers figure it out.

#57 teeray

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

I know it's hard for you to understand this, but anytime someone tries to start a forum, it usually beings the same way. It was up for 2 weeks.

Our offense ended up high because of the last 5 games blowing up very bad teams like Tampa Bay. The stat is heavily impacted by the most recent 3 games. At this point last season, it was just as inefficient even when we COULD put up points and yards. Same story this year. Nothing changed.

Tom Brady was an efficient game manager first. Then became a high power QB. Big difference from Cam Newton, and you should never, ever, EVER mention the 2 in the same sentence again.

Our QB has no clue how to manage a football game. Neither does our coach. Two years later he has the same issue I told you he had in week 4 of last year. He is missing the basics. And he self implodes. Especially in the 4th quarter. What is he now? 0-13 when throwing picks?

I think stats are no longer necessary to notice the issues. Eye test is enough at this point. And I'm not back. Just wanted to save another poster from your paranoid and baseless accusations.

Take care.


So we finished 12th in YPP and finished 6-10. So you finally admit after all this time that YPP has little bearing on success and is a very misleading stat. Glad you finally came around on that.

And per usual you fail in the basic concepts of reading comprehension. If you think I was comparing Cam favorably to Tom Brady then you really are as deficient as I have claimed. I was saying Tom Brady was the exception to the rule.

But I would not expect anything less from you. Goodbye.

#58 CRA

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:10 PM

. What is he now? 0-13 when throwing picks?



Yeah, we all know our team is so incomplete that if Cam doesn't play mistake free they can't win.

That stat merly shows how bad of a team we have.....QBs throw picks and walk away with wins over and over in a season. They have teams that play all 3 phases though....something we have never seen in the Rivera era. We have 1 phase teams under him

#59 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:24 PM

Yeah, we all know our team is so incomplete that if Cam doesn't play mistake free they can't win.

That stat merly shows how bad of a team we have.....QBs throw picks and walk away with wins over and over in a season. They have teams that play all 3 phases though....something we have never seen in the Rivera era. We have 1 phase teams under him



Yes and the teams who can actually do that have quarterbacks named Brady, Rodgers or Manning. Or maybe a defense like the Bears. And even then, it happens rarely.

Teams don't win regularly in the NFL when they lose the turnover battle. Never have. Never will. They get lucky sometimes and come back, but most of the times, they end up just like the Panthers. Losers.

Btw, not throwing an interception, doesn't mean you played perfect or mistake free. It just means you are doing what you are supposed to do. There's a big difference between quarterbacks who pass 40-50 times a game and throw an interception and quarterbacks who manage to throw 2 while throwing less than 30 times a game.

The guy with 50 passing attempts can get away with it and still win.

#60 MaineManPanther

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:33 PM

I have never argued that the Carolina offensive line was "good". Far from it.

But it is NOT the worst in the NFL.

And Cam Newton's problems cannot be wholly or even mainly blamed on it.

It is football and many factors are in play, obviously.

It just gets my goat a little when I see "jailbreak on every play", "worst offensive line in football", "stupidist coaching staff ever assembled", etc, etc, repeated by the members of this forum...all in defense of a second year quarterback who is playing VERY poorly at this point in his career and compounding that poor play with incredilby bad judgement off the field...


After a certain level of bad play the specific ranking shouldn't matter. The fact that its only the around 28th best and not 32nd is a pretty small point to make. Most people are not arguing that its literally the worst, but bad enough to be a big factor in poor offensive performance. Which given the stats is true.

The fact is Newton is a 2nd year Qb dealing with a lackluster line and underachieving ground game. That doesn't mean he's blameless. But with context like that its not hard to see why few think Newton is the biggest issue.


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