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The Success of Chip Kelly. The New Old School

New Coach Panthers Spread Fail ?

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#106 rayzor

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:37 AM

That is not even close to being true.

yeah...agreed here. i'm on board, but i'm not stupid enough to think it's anywhere close to the consensus favorite. that not having pro experience is scaring a lot of people off and will probably scare off the FO, though it shouldn't...at least it shouldn't prevent them from even taking a hard and open minded look at him. the upside with what he does is too great to not look at him.

imo, it's kind of like the whole pre-draft newton discussion. he had pretty much everything you could want in a franchise QB, except experience in a "pro-style" system. what we saw, though, was that he was quite capable of handling anything throw his way (except for very inept offensive playcalling that is incredibly predictable which is what we had under davidson).

"pro-style" is a very overrated mindset and is starting to see a decline in usage at the pro level. there is no true system that is the official system of the NFL. QBs spend more time in the shotgun than ever before and many teams are using the spread and are incredibly successful with it. the game is changing...again. the mark of a great coach is being able to adapt what he does to the personnel he has and to what will make the team competitive. imo, what i've seen from chip kelly makes him no less capable of doing that than any other perspective coach the team might hire.

i think the pro-game is evolving and it's starting to look more and more like college than college will be looking like the pros. i'd rather find someone on the front end of that than on the back end which would be some old school "pro-style" HC.

#107 Snake

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:22 AM

yeah...agreed here. i'm on board, but i'm not stupid enough to think it's anywhere close to the consensus favorite. that not having pro experience is scaring a lot of people off and will probably scare off the FO, though it shouldn't...at least it shouldn't prevent them from even taking a hard and open minded look at him. the upside with what he does is too great to not look at him.

imo, it's kind of like the whole pre-draft newton discussion. he had pretty much everything you could want in a franchise QB, except experience in a "pro-style" system. what we saw, though, was that he was quite capable of handling anything throw his way (except for very inept offensive playcalling that is incredibly predictable which is what we had under davidson).

"pro-style" is a very overrated mindset and is starting to see a decline in usage at the pro level. there is no true system that is the official system of the NFL. QBs spend more time in the shotgun than ever before and many teams are using the spread and are incredibly successful with it. the game is changing...again. the mark of a great coach is being able to adapt what he does to the personnel he has and to what will make the team competitive. imo, what i've seen from chip kelly makes him no less capable of doing that than any other perspective coach the team might hire.

i think the pro-game is evolving and it's starting to look more and more like college than college will be looking like the pros. i'd rather find someone on the front end of that than on the back end which would be some old school "pro-style" HC.


I totally agree with this but my fear is we go with another DC because of Richardson's like for them. Its all dependent on what impression Rivera has set in Richardson's mind.

#108 rayzor

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

I totally agree with this but my fear is we go with another DC because of Richardson's like for them. Its all dependent on what impression Rivera has set in Richardson's mind.

true. lack of long term success with both fox and capers as well as the disaster that the rivera era has been may shy him away from that route as well.

at the very least i hope it opens his mind up a bit to other possibilities.

#109 Snake

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

true. lack of long term success with both fox and capers as well as the disaster that the rivera era has been may shy him away from that route as well.

at the very least i hope it opens his mind up a bit to other possibilities.


My feeling is that Richardson want the nest we can get, he wants to win. That's why he has an outside source scouting for GMs.

#110 rodeo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:00 PM

I honestly just want someone with head coaching experience. I don't care if it's pro or college anymore, I don't want someone else who will have to learn on the job. I've felt like Rivera is in over his head because he's not catching on to all the things a HC has on his plate.

I want a game and player manager. Someone who knows when to call timeouts, knows how to get the best out of his guys, and knows how to hire and fire coordinators to call the plays. That's all we need, honestly.

I don't want someone who is hired just because they have had success as a playcaller/coordinator, because what does that mean exactly on gameday when he's not the one calling the plays? Not much.

#111 Gucci Mane

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:02 PM

imo, it's kind of like the whole pre-draft newton discussion. he had pretty much everything you could want in a franchise QB, except experience in a "pro-style" system. what we saw, though, was that he was quite capable of handling anything throw his way

"pro-style" is a very overrated mindset and is starting to see a decline in usage at the pro level. there is no true system that is the official system of the NFL. QBs spend more time in the shotgun than ever before and many teams are using the spread and are incredibly successful with it. the game is changing...again. the mark of a great coach is being able to adapt what he does to the personnel he has and to what will make the team competitive. imo, what i've seen from chip kelly makes him no less capable of doing that than any other perspective coach the team might hire.

i think the pro-game is evolving and it's starting to look more and more like college than college will be looking like the pros. i'd rather find someone on the front end of that than on the back end which would be some old school "pro-style" HC.


Pro-style isn't overrated and it isn't going to decline. If you didn't know, shotgun formations are a part of the "pro-style".

The reason you want a QB to play in a pro style offense is because obviously the transition will be made easier. Its hard for a QB like Newton to get used to being under center because he is used to always facing the defense which makes it easier on him to make the reads as he can see the whole play develop. Defensive pre-reads make or break a QB in the NFL, and option offenses do not promote any kind of pre-reads.

Its nice to see the zone read plays every once in a while but we are shooting ourselves in the foot by making it our base offense. Chip even knows he wouldn't dare use the offense he has in Oregon, in the NFL. The difference in the range of speed from college to NFL becomes minimal, and with that goes the only thing that makes the zone read successful [assuming proper execution].

#112 Matthias

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:40 PM

To all you Chip Kelly fanboys and girls, B) I find David Shaw's philosophy would fit perfect for Cam's development. I think Shaw's Cardinals will beat Kelly's Ducks tonight. So let's see who's philosophy concerning offense, wins tonight!

#113 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:46 PM

To all you Chip Kelly fanboys and girls, B) I find David Shaw's philosophy would fit perfect for Cam's development. I think Shaw's Cardinals will beat Kelly's Ducks tonight. So let's see who's philosophy concerning offense, wins tonight!



Don't get me wrong, I love David Shaw and I feel he will be a great coach. I just don't see him stopping Chip Kelly tonight in Eugene! As for head coach, either one of those guys will be a good coach and maximize the potential of our players.

#114 Jackofalltrades

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:11 PM

I'll take Shaw, thank you.

#115 Gabeking

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:15 PM

I'll take Shaw, thank you.


Same here

#116 Achilles

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:42 AM

Didn't realize Kelly and Gruden were buds. Maybe Kelly would bring Chucky on board as OC or perhaps QB coach. That might work out quite well. I wouldn't want Gruden for HC (he's got a screw loose), but as a contributor on the offensive side, I think he could be brilliant.

Carolina might look like a good job. We are an organization with a lot of young hungry talent, a beast at QB, and a top 5 pick. We are not that far from being a good team. I mean, it's not like we are a perennial non-playoff team that struggles to win close games in the 4th quarter...oh, wait...we are that team. Choosing a GM from outside the organization will probably make a huge difference. Seifert did both and Hurney came from the business office. We need someone with an objective point of view who can look at the situation and make the tough, unemotional calls.

I like the idea of getting a guy who has been a HC. Enough of this promoting coordinators (Seifert notwithstanding...he sucked and basically just rode on the coattails of what Walsh built in SF). Oregon is a huge football school and has been in the championship game more than once under Kelly (if they make it this year). Harbaugh and Carroll are examples of Pac 12 (10) HCs that translated to success in the NFL. SEC coaches don't run NFL-type schemes. That's part of why Saban, Petrino, and Spurrier all failed.

#117 Matthias

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:21 AM

Chip Kelly's offense got exposed last night. If a non SEC college defense can contain his offense, imagine how badly a NFL defense will shut that mess down! We don't even have to imagine that, we already seen it happen with us this year. Now Kelly is better at the spread read option than Chud, but essentially it's the same thing in my eyes. The read option kills the running game, because it's only designed for big running plays that catches a defense off guard. If you run it consistently, defenses will be prepared to stop it with ease. Plus, it messes up the footwork of a QB. Cam is not mature in the pocket and his footwork. Why put him in an offense that kills the basics in that area?

That is why I like a pro philosophy for Cam, and for our running backs. Give me a guy like David Shaw if we are looking for a HC in the college ranks.

#118 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:17 AM

Chip Kelly's offense got exposed last night. If a non SEC college defense can contain his offense, imagine how badly a NFL defense will shut that mess down! We don't even have to imagine that, we already seen it happen with us this year. Now Kelly is better at the spread read option than Chud, but essentially it's the same thing in my eyes. The read option kills the running game, because it's only designed for big running plays that catches a defense off guard. If you run it consistently, defenses will be prepared to stop it with ease. Plus, it messes up the footwork of a QB. Cam is not mature in the pocket and his footwork. Why put him in an offense that kills the basics in that area?

That is why I like a pro philosophy for Cam, and for our running backs. Give me a guy like David Shaw if we are looking for a HC in the college ranks.


I wish I could disagree with you but I can't on this one. I like Chip Kelly but they played horrible last night. David Shaw might be a better fit for Cam but the point is would he leave Stanford and I just can't see that happening.

#119 Matthias

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:37 AM

I wish I could disagree with you but I can't on this one. I like Chip Kelly but they played horrible last night. David Shaw might be a better fit for Cam but the point is would he leave Stanford and I just can't see that happening.


He definitely has a good thing going at Stanford. (Plus I can't wait to see Sanders Jr. play!) I guess the only thing that would make Shaw leave Stanford, is a tentative offer. Would JR pursue Shaw like that? Would Shaw be worth that kind of risk? I would hope so. Of course the obvious thing for us to do is to get a coach with Cowher-like experience, but I got a good feeling about Shaw. How he would be perfect for Cam's development.

#120 Snake

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:12 PM

Oh noz dude got totally exposed cuz he lost one game... Some of you guys are such haters.



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