Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Dear Mr. Accorsi...


  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#46 Toolbox

Toolbox

    SENIOR HUDDLER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,652 posts
  • Locationnc

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:19 PM

phil savage is a browns reject.. panthers dont need any more of that poo.

#47 SteveSmithOwns

SteveSmithOwns

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 385 posts

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:23 PM

First thing I would ask him to do is to hire someone to let the fans know how to act during the game. I went to the game yesterday, and I swear i was the loudest person in the entire stadium. I'm tired of letting opponents take over our stadium and make more noise than us. If you are at the game, you should be constantly yelling while the team is on defense and SHUT UP while the team is on offense. the only time I heard someone try to start a chant was then we were on O. I swear, we need to educate these fans...

#48 fieryprophet

fieryprophet

    WARNING: Do not annoy!

  • ALL-PRO
  • 5,266 posts
  • LocationLa Grange, NC

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:26 PM

Usually people who place little value on leadership have no cognition of the concept.


I never said I didn't value leadership, only that I know that the outcome of football games have almost nothing to do with it. Anyone with a modicum of NFL history under their belt would remember the long line of dysfunctional but talented teams that won consistently despite fielding some of the most selfish, infighting and downright stupid players imaginable.

Football is a game, not a company, and all this squawking of "leadership" issues overlooks the real problems (like idiotic coaching.)

#49 mwright350

mwright350

    Thy Jimmies shall be Rustled

  • ALL-PRO
  • 1,684 posts
  • LocationChina Grove, NC

Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:03 PM

I never said I didn't value leadership, only that I know that the outcome of football games have almost nothing to do with it. Anyone with a modicum of NFL history under their belt would remember the long line of dysfunctional but talented teams that won consistently despite fielding some of the most selfish, infighting and downright stupid players imaginable.

Football is a game, not a company, and all this squawking of "leadership" issues overlooks the real problems (like idiotic coaching.)


Eh - player leaders aren't the most important thing in the world but you'd be foolish to discount the value of an emotional leader on the field. Ray Lewis, for instance, had an impact on that Ravens defense far beyond what his (admittedly plentiful) talent brought to the field. The same could probably be said for Breesus in New Orleans. We could make a list. Units with an emotional team leader on the field with them can play with an edge that teams without that often don't have.

I wouldn't focus on leadership above other things but I certainly wouldn't treat it as an afterthought.

#50 fieryprophet

fieryprophet

    WARNING: Do not annoy!

  • ALL-PRO
  • 5,266 posts
  • LocationLa Grange, NC

Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:24 PM

Eh - player leaders aren't the most important thing in the world but you'd be foolish to discount the value of an emotional leader on the field. Ray Lewis, for instance, had an impact on that Ravens defense far beyond what his (admittedly plentiful) talent brought to the field. The same could probably be said for Breesus in New Orleans. We could make a list. Units with an emotional team leader on the field with them can play with an edge that teams without that often don't have.

I wouldn't focus on leadership above other things but I certainly wouldn't treat it as an afterthought.


I wouldn't want a team of squabbling children, for sure, but ever notice that only high profile players are ever considered "leaders?" Nobody gives a rip what some backup tight end does, even if he's the first one in and the last to leave, because he's a nobody in the media's mind. They lavish accolades on Tom Brady's leadership ability when the Patriots eke out Super Bowls and then question his standing in the locker room when they lose them. It's a farce, simple and plain, and one that fans willingly buy into because it makes them think that all it would take is a little bit of magical thinking to solve the team's problems.

#51 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,449 posts

Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:29 PM

simply put, leaders help set the tone for the team...get others involved and passionate about what is going on and their role in it helping them put every bit of effort into it. they help with focus and determination. it's the difference between a team that is fired up and fights and one that just comes and collects a paycheck. that doesn't come naturally for many. it's easy for people to get lost or discouraged along the way, but it's the role of the leader to help get them back on track.

teams that come back from a loss most certainly have been effected by leadership because while some teams may just throw up their hands and say, "ahhhh....f*ck it. we're sunk." others have a good way of getting back into the game and even winning it. teams don't do that kind of thing unless they believe they can do it and those teams usually have leaders who have gotten through to enough players and made them feel like they can help turn this thing around.

leaders help with vision and help every person feel like a valued part of making that vision a reality.

#52 fieryprophet

fieryprophet

    WARNING: Do not annoy!

  • ALL-PRO
  • 5,266 posts
  • LocationLa Grange, NC

Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:44 PM

simply put, leaders help set the tone for the team...get others involved and passionate about what is going on and their role in it helping them put every bit of effort into it. they help with focus and determination. it's the difference between a team that is fired up and fights and one that just comes and collects a paycheck. that doesn't come naturally for many. it's easy for people to get lost or discouraged along the way, but it's the role of the leader to help get them back on track.

teams that come back from a loss most certainly have been effected by leadership because while some teams may just throw up their hands and say, "ahhhh....f*ck it. we're sunk." others have a good way of getting back into the game and even winning it. teams don't do that kind of thing unless they believe they can do it and those teams usually have leaders who have gotten through to enough players and made them feel like they can help turn this thing around.

leaders help with vision and help every person feel like a valued part of making that vision a reality.


If you go by that criteria, then I don't know why we're questioning the leadership on this team. They've played hard every week despite having their hearts ripped out repeatedly, and in spite of some of the worst coaching this side of the Cowboys. The players parking lots is full on the team's day off. And the amount of sniping between players is a faint whisper compared to the full blown circus that is the Jets. We have leaders on this team; the poor results falls on a lack of leadership and accountability at the highest level of the coaching staff.

I think what this all boils down to is that a lot of idiot fans don't like what they see out of Cam, despite the fact that Cam simply is not the kind of person to fake who he is, and is still struggling to find the balance in how he carries himself with his teammates while earning their respect. He's trying to change, just look at his press conferences, but if he starts walking around alternating between screaming at his teammates and sitting stoic on the sidelines it's going to come off as fake and contrived. We need coaching leaders, and the rest will fall into place.

#53 mwright350

mwright350

    Thy Jimmies shall be Rustled

  • ALL-PRO
  • 1,684 posts
  • LocationChina Grove, NC

Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:53 PM

I wouldn't want a team of squabbling children, for sure, but ever notice that only high profile players are ever considered "leaders?" Nobody gives a rip what some backup tight end does, even if he's the first one in and the last to leave, because he's a nobody in the media's mind. They lavish accolades on Tom Brady's leadership ability when the Patriots eke out Super Bowls and then question his standing in the locker room when they lose them. It's a farce, simple and plain, and one that fans willingly buy into because it makes them think that all it would take is a little bit of magical thinking to solve the team's problems.


I think we're looking at this through different lenses.

I couldn't care less what the media says about leadership.

I care mostly about what the coaches / players say. There have been multiple reports out of this team that we have a real lack of leadership. The media can kick rocks - our players / coaches saying that means something. And it does mean that an incoming GM might want to look to bring someone in who can fill a role AND add some leadership to a locker room that is reportedly missing it.

#54 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,449 posts

Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:56 PM

If you go by that criteria, then I don't know why we're questioning the leadership on this team. They've played hard every week despite having their hearts ripped out repeatedly, and in spite of some of the worst coaching this side of the Cowboys. The players parking lots is full on the team's day off. And the amount of sniping between players is a faint whisper compared to the full blown circus that is the Jets. We have leaders on this team; the poor results falls on a lack of leadership and accountability at the highest level of the coaching staff.

I think what this all boils down to is that a lot of idiot fans don't like what they see out of Cam, despite the fact that Cam simply is not the kind of person to fake who he is, and is still struggling to find the balance in how he carries himself with his teammates while earning their respect. He's trying to change, just look at his press conferences, but if he starts walking around alternating between screaming at his teammates and sitting stoic on the sidelines it's going to come off as fake and contrived. We need coaching leaders, and the rest will fall into place.

heart is there. just not direction/focus and not at key times.

it's not about screaming. it's not even about facial expressions. it does depend on your affect and the way you are perceived by others and using that to it's potential and if it takes altering parts of your outward personality even at the expense of being "fake" or whatever, then so be it.

cam's still figuring it out, yes. but he's not just naturally grow up into the leader he should be or that the team needs him to be. he's in need of what most are...knowledge on how best to use the influence you have on others.

and yes, we need coaching leaders, but we also need player leaders as well. leaders are needed at every level for the whole to be successful. that's true in any organization, including football.

#55 fieryprophet

fieryprophet

    WARNING: Do not annoy!

  • ALL-PRO
  • 5,266 posts
  • LocationLa Grange, NC

Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:06 PM

I agree in a general sense, but I despise the media trope that assigns "leadership" qualities to players just because they happen to be the ones that get the mics shoved in their face the most often, and especially just because they're a QB on a winning team. The kind of leadership this team needs isn't some public rah-rah ranter like Ray Lewis, but a grizzled vet or two like old Vinny Testaverde, whose short time here had a huge impact on Steve Smith (Smith calls him the second best QB he's ever had.)

Cam can't be THE leader on this team yet, he's still way too young and in dire need of being lead himself. That's what irks me when media types and ignorant fans go on those rants, because they have no clue what the hell they're talking about. Leadership isn't a fungible quality, it's just the ability to impart much-needed information in a way that those around you can happily accept it.

#56 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,449 posts

Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

i don't care about the media. i don't really pay attention to it at all. i rarely read what anyone says about it. i don't listen to football on the radio. i don't watch espn at all. i watch NFLN occasionally, but even then i haven't turned it on in a couple weeks.

it doesn't matter what the media says about it. for those paying attention to the panthers, tho, it's pretty obvious that this team is lacking in leadership...esp. positive leadership that helps forge a winning culture. that culture will come with wins and a coaching staff that knows how to inspire and develop the team in all aspects, but it will also come from the players shifting from an apathetic "it is what it is" (that rivera & co did nothing to change and that hurney allowed to remain) to a culture and mindset that there is no accepting anything but your best at all times. that losing is no longer acceptable and not just part of the game.

it has to come not only from the top down, but from all fronts...IF this team is going to go all the way.

#57 Mr. Scot

Mr. Scot

    Football Historian

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 39,734 posts
  • LocationSC

Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:23 AM

Convince JR that players with off the field issues are sometimes worth it.


Not if they're involved in violent crimes. You never ever take on guys like that.


Or we might just hire a fuggin sports agent! *rolls eyes*


The same site that posted that said it was a rumor with nothing to it.

#58 Yardbird

Yardbird

    Junior Member

  • NEWB
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:35 PM

As a guy who has attended many of these and led more than a few, they are typically designed to teach people how to get along in a large organization. They are great for the bottom 60% of the organization, but often have the effect of neutering top performers. It just doesn't seem like a good fit when talking about football players.

One exception, and perhaps this is what you intended, would be team building excursions when the intent is just to let them build bonds by having fun together. Whether paintballing, white water rafting or some equivalent activity, these can be used effectively to bring an organization closer together.



#59 Yardbird

Yardbird

    Junior Member

  • NEWB
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:05 PM

At its best, leadership development initiatives are designed to fit the needs and issues of the client. Some help people get along in an organization, some focus on individual development, some focus on culture change...and those are only a few examples. My graduate degree is in that field and I work in that business, too. Just cautioning the board not to assume leadership development is a cookie-cutter process.

As far as program effectiveness is concerned: While there may be examples of "neutered" top performers in some cases, I'd hesitate before painting leadership development initiatives with such a broad brush. Research simply doesn't support that notion. I respect you may have personal experience that says otherwise, but let's be careful about generalizing.

Leadership development in athletics is interesting. We tend to equate "leadership" with on-field performance. If a player shines as an individual performer, we call him/her a leader. Our judgement isn't generally informed by whether they do less obvious things to enhance a team's performance. Are they agile learners? Are they effective communicators and teachers of one another? Can they reflect on what was successful and what wasn't (and adapt accordingly)? These attributes are essential in all high-stakes, high performance contexts. Look at the Patriots. They succeed with several superstars, but lots of few JAGs. The right combination and chemistry of JAGs can outperform star-laden rosters. We like to think Belicik is just that brilliant. But if you listen to his players after they retire, you'll hear stories of leadership from coaches and players. Not just on-field leadership, but a culture, a discipline, and an identity focused on achieving the team's objectives. I'd say that's relevant to football.

#60 Yardbird

Yardbird

    Junior Member

  • NEWB
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

I never said I didn't value leadership, only that I know that the outcome of football games have almost nothing to do with it. Anyone with a modicum of NFL history under their belt would remember the long line of dysfunctional but talented teams that won consistently despite fielding some of the most selfish, infighting and downright stupid players imaginable.

Football is a game, not a company, and all this squawking of "leadership" issues overlooks the real problems (like idiotic coaching.)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Shop at Amazon Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com