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Wealth Redistribution Under Obama


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#76 mmmbeans

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:15 PM

Jesus beans...you are the ones who keep harping that we need programs like the European nations have. So yes, pointing out that many of those same countries are going away from those very programs is certainly relevant.


So are we all at the kids table now? You were right before, this conversation is laughable.

#77 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:16 AM

hey madhatter, cite your sources

#78 MadHatter

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:19 AM

hey madhatter, cite your sources


Source for what? The fact that European economies are in trouble and their citizens are pissed off about benefits declining? Just turn in the news and watch.

#79 FurdTurgason

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:36 AM

I'd like to hear from the left on this one...why are many European economies in so much trouble? Serious question and requesting a serious reply.

#80 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:20 PM

hey madhatter when you were in college did you write "JUST TURN ON THE NEWS, JUST LOOK AROUND YOU" on your reference pages

#81 Delhommey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:23 PM

I'd like to hear from the left on this one...why are many European economies in so much trouble? Serious question and requesting a serious reply.


Overall? The biggest problem is you have very diverse economies all controlled by one common currency. While the Euro makes trade and travel that much easier, it makes it very difficult for central banks to use currency to cool off an overheating economy or add fuel to the fire when an economy is flagging.

Most of the economies in trouble got themselves into trouble by mounting up too much debt. They all did so for a lot of reasons. (not one of those reason was free education btw).

Ireland and Spain got themselves into hot water by giving their banks full backing, and then letting their banks go hog wild into the local real estate market bubble. Before these bubbles burst (a little after ours did btw), both countries' governments were actually spending well within their means. Spain's debt ratio was actually significantly better than the US and Germany. Meanwhile the private sector went hogwild running up debts betting in the real estate market. When that went bust so did they, but the Spanish and Irish governments had given them backing, and then both went into debt bailing them out.

Italy had a similar issue with private companies running up huge tabs due to historically low interest rates.

Greece is corrupt as hell and has been running a shell game for years. They spent like sailors on public works like the 2004 Olympics (and a lot of that spending was pocketed by corrupt officials), raised public sector wages to keep everyone happy, and hid debt so the EU wouldn't crack down on them. They were able to keep up appearances while the economy was hot, but the second it tanked they were in trouble. Their biggest sources of income were construction and tourism, two of the first sectors to take a hit in a downturn.

#82 Kurb

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:26 PM

Most of the economies in trouble got themselves into trouble by mounting up too much debt. They all did so for a lot of reasons. (not one of those reason was free education btw).




How is this possible ?

#83 FurdTurgason

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:28 PM

Overall? The biggest problem is you have very diverse economies all controlled by one common currency. While the Euro makes trade and travel that much easier, it makes it very difficult for central banks to use currency to cool off an overheating economy or add fuel to the fire when an economy is flagging.

Most of the economies in trouble got themselves into trouble by mounting up too much debt. They all did so for a lot of reasons. (not one of those reason was free education btw).

Ireland and Spain got themselves into hot water by giving their banks full backing, and then letting their banks go hog wild into the local real estate market bubble. Before these bubbles burst (a little after ours did btw), both countries' governments were actually spending well within their means. Spain's debt ratio was actually significantly better than the US and Germany. Meanwhile the private sector went hogwild running up debts betting in the real estate market. When that went bust so did they, but the Spanish and Irish governments had given them backing, and then both went into debt bailing them out.

Italy had a similar issue with private companies running up huge tabs due to historically low interest rates.

Greece is corrupt as hell and has been running a shell game for years. They spent like sailors on public works like the 2004 Olympics (and a lot of that spending was pocketed by corrupt officials), raised public sector wages to keep everyone happy, and hid debt so the EU wouldn't crack down on them. They were able to keep up appearances while the economy was hot, but the second it tanked they were in trouble. Their biggest sources of income were construction and tourism, two of the first sectors to take a hit in a downturn.



Thank you. (a sincere thank you, not an I told you so smart ass thank you, by the way)

#84 MadHatter

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

Overall? The biggest problem is you have very diverse economies all controlled by one common currency. While the Euro makes trade and travel that much easier, it makes it very difficult for central banks to use currency to cool off an overheating economy or add fuel to the fire when an economy is flagging.

Most of the economies in trouble got themselves into trouble by mounting up too much debt. They all did so for a lot of reasons. (not one of those reason was free education btw).

Ireland and Spain got themselves into hot water by giving their banks full backing, and then letting their banks go hog wild into the local real estate market bubble. Before these bubbles burst (a little after ours did btw), both countries' governments were actually spending well within their means. Spain's debt ratio was actually significantly better than the US and Germany. Meanwhile the private sector went hogwild running up debts betting in the real estate market. When that went bust so did they, but the Spanish and Irish governments had given them backing, and then both went into debt bailing them out.

Italy had a similar issue with private companies running up huge tabs due to historically low interest rates.

Greece is corrupt as hell and has been running a shell game for years. They spent like sailors on public works like the 2004 Olympics (and a lot of that spending was pocketed by corrupt officials), raised public sector wages to keep everyone happy, and hid debt so the EU wouldn't crack down on them. They were able to keep up appearances while the economy was hot, but the second it tanked they were in trouble. Their biggest sources of income were construction and tourism, two of the first sectors to take a hit in a downturn.


so, why did they mount up too much debt?

Because they cannot afford the social programs that they had. And, thus many of them are moving away from providing things such as free college tuition.

#85 Delhommey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:24 PM

so, why did they mount up too much debt?

Because they cannot afford the social programs that they had. And, thus many of them are moving away from providing things such as free college tuition.


Someone cannot read.

#86 Delhommey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:29 PM

The funny thing is conservatives love to jump all over the European debt crisis as vindication of their beliefs when one of the greatest causes was low corporate tax rates and one of the biggest reasons it's not a whole lot worse is German Labor Unions.

The world doesn't fit neatly into Talk Radio subjects, folks.

#87 MadHatter

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

Someone cannot read.


Just because you cited other reasons that debt was amassed, does not also make it true that the continued costs of free education were not a contributing factor.

There are young college age kids all across Europe protesting and pissed off because many countries are moving away from completely free college tuition.

I am not saying that this is the only reason....far from it. It is just one of many programs that the countries are finding that they can no longer really afford.

#88 thefuzz

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:33 PM

Oh yea....it's always the taxes...never the spending.

#89 Delhommey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:37 PM

Just because you cited other reasons that debt was amassed, does not also make it true that the continued costs of free education were not a contributing factor.

There are young college age kids all across Europe protesting and pissed off because many countries are moving away from completely free college tuition.

I am not saying that this is the only reason....far from it. It is just one of many programs that the countries are finding that they can no longer really afford.


Using that logic I could go to Vegas, take out hundreds of thousands of dollars in markers, lose it all betting on craps, and turn around and tell everyone I went bankrupt due to my car payment.

#90 thefuzz

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

Using that logic I could go to Vegas, take out hundreds of thousands of dollars in markers, lose it all betting on craps, and turn around and tell everyone I went bankrupt due to my car payment.



And only fools would believe you.

You went bankrupt because you spent more than you could repay.

Does not matter if it was the car (defense), credit cards (social programs), or the gambling (bureaucratic inefficiency), you spent more than you could pay back.

Just like the federal government of this great nation.


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