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If you knew then what you know now...


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#61 rayzor

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

newton's previous coaches said that he was someone that needed to be in the game to learn the most. sitting him on the bench wouldn't have helped him grow and i fully believed that.

and no...not all experiences are good, but what matters is the same thing with anyone....it all depends on what you do with both the good and bad experiences that makes those moments worthwhile and every moment can be worthwhile or valuable in some way. it all depends on your reaction to them and what you do with them.

#62 bleys

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

You've tapped into part of what I'm pondering here.

Suppose Newton had sat and learned all the nuances of a pro offense for the first season. Would Chudzinski still have felt the need - for whatever reason- to switch to a college style offense in year two?

I know people will go with the "he set a bunch of rookie records" argument in this. Someone will have to tell me exactly what good those records are doing us right now.

Add in that the benefit of whatever good experience he got last year is being erased by the disaster of this year.


This may have been stated, but I completely fail to see how Cam sitting his 1st year and proving to be fully capable of playing at the NFL level has any relevance to Chud being a complete jackass in regards to the offensive scheme change in year 2..



#63 Mr. Scot

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:27 PM

newton's previous coaches said that he was someone that needed to be in the game to learn the most. sitting him on the bench wouldn't have helped him grow and i fully believed that.

and no...not all experiences are good, but what matters is the same thing with anyone....it all depends on what you do with both the good and bad experiences that makes those moments worthwhile and every moment can be worthwhile or valuable in some way. it all depends on your reaction to them and what you do with them.


Look at my last answer in the QB / Coaches thread.

Maybe that'll help you understand why I see things the way I do here.

#64 rayzor

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:38 PM

i know where you're coming from in this discussion that you essentially made two threads about.

we essentially beat that horse to death when we were talking about drafting a QB or not a couple years ago.

you think that QBs are better off sitting for a year or two or more and watching.

i disagree. i think that might be the case with some, but not most.

all QBs need solid coaching. all of them need good mentors. they all need decent teams around them. but sometimes they are just bad and overrated, like leaf and russell. sometimes they just can't handle the pressure that can come with the job, like carr and VY. sometimes they just aren't all that good to begin with, like clausen, quinn, and gabbert....or at least not good enough for the full-time starting gig.

coaching can sometimes help things. sometimes at best all it can do is cover up how bad someone is at their job. coaches might improve things, but it won't turn a dumb rock into a diamond.

#65 Avacashay

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

I still don't see how sitting Cam would have done anything but set you guys back another year.

You ask why would Chud change a system that a QB has sat to learn, probably the same reason he would change or tweak a system that a QB had learned, played, and thrived in. Seems to me seeing something actually work for a player would give you even less reason to alter it.

You say start DA, but didn't the exact same thing happen with Chud and DA in Cleveland? DA was a pro-bowler one year, then the whole thing spontaneously combusted. You've seen the light now, It doesn't make any sense to want go back into the cave.

#66 Mr. Scot

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:46 PM

i know where you're coming from in this discussion that you essentially made two threads about.

we essentially beat that horse to death when we were talking about drafting a QB or not a couple years ago.

you think that QBs are better off sitting for a year or two or more and watching.

i disagree. i think that might be the case with some, but not most.

all QBs need solid coaching. all of them need good mentors. they all need decent teams around them. but sometimes they are just bad and overrated, like leaf and russell. sometimes they just can't handle the pressure that can come with the job, like carr and VY. sometimes they just aren't all that good to begin with, like clausen, quinn, and gabbert....or at least not good enough for the full-time starting gig.

coaching can sometimes help things. sometimes at best all it can do is cover up how bad someone is at their job. coaches might improve things, but it won't turn a dumb rock into a diamond.


There are guys who can definitely start right away and succeed, though I'd put that number lower than you would.

I would say the majority are better to wait, but in the NFL these days, that rarely happens.

#67 rayzor

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:20 PM

There are guys who can definitely start right away and succeed, though I'd put that number lower than you would.

I would say the majority are better to wait, but in the NFL these days, that rarely happens.

i think you can find out what the QBs are made of and what needs to be done to help them develop by getting them in the game. you give them tape of themselves playing with live bullets and see what they could have done better. sure, they coaching would help, so would an experienced QB with them watching the tapes, but there is no substitute for experience...esp. experience aided by good coaching/mentoring/teaching.

one without the other can result in disaster. both hand in hand stands the best chance of success.

most of these young guys starting, btw, were good enough as rookies to get the job done. the best QBs in the league....when did they start? imo, it doesn't really matter. when they did get the start they did good enough to keep the job, but you will never find proof that those who didn't start later than their rookie year wouldn't have been just as successful if they had started as a rookie. you will never find anything more than inconclusive evidence that those who did start as rookies and were successful would have been more successful had they waited.

you approach each player individually and treat them as such. you have projects and you have QBs that are ready to go right out of the gate. the ones you have that are ready to go, you draft them early and you get them on the field as soon as possible. if you are a team that can afford to sit one on the bench while another starts and wins...then you do it. usually tho, those teams aren't drafting in the first round. they draft projects....guys that you have to sit and groom...and those are the guys you don't draft in the first round.

#68 Icege

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:00 PM

I would still want him out there from day 1. Being as athletic as he is, Cam will (and has) trusted his arm or legs too much and hesitated on hitting open receivers. With more experience he will become better at his situational awareness.

#69 doghead28

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

Start him from day 1. There is not time allowed in this leaque anymore for QB's to sit and learn. I don't like the read option style of offense. I would prefer to see him under center more. Time will tell if he will work out.

#70 SOJA

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:05 PM

started from day one, Cam is far from perfect but he isn't our problem. Coaching, poor o-line play, and a sub-par secondary are our problems

#71 jarhead

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:05 PM

I think by in large the days of drafting a qb with a high pick just to have him sit on the bench are gone.Certainly agree that a lack of supporting staff can kill the confidence of any young qb but do not feel that was the case with Cam.

#72 Peppers90 NC

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:08 PM

the appropriate decision was made to start him. wish we could have sold chud to be a HC somewhere and not went backwards in every aspect of our offense.

#73 TheRed

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

Mr. Scot is reverting back to his 2011 pre draft form.

Sit Cam to save him from himself!

#74 2jakefansinva

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

Starting Cam from day 1 was the correct decision.

#75 thefuzz

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

I prefer to sit them, but hey what do I know.

I just look at our team, and know that we are not talented enough at some very important spots to be throwing a "project" QB into the fire.

Teams like the Steelers when dealing with Ben can afford to do that....we can't.

I do feel that Cam needed massive work on footwork, reading defenses, accuracy, and body language that he has not had time to work on.

But that said, this is a bunch of woulda, coulda, shoulda. I just hope we have not Carr'd him.


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