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skills don't pay the bills


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#1 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

http://www.nytimes.c...-the-bills.html

And yet, even as classes like Goldenberg’s are filled to capacity all over America, hundreds of thousands of U.S. factories are starving for skilled workers. Throughout the campaign, President Obama lamented the so-called skills gap and referenced a study claiming that nearly 80 percent of manufacturers have jobs they can’t fill. Mitt Romney made similar claims. The National Association of Manufacturers estimates that there are roughly 600,000 jobs available for whoever has the right set of advanced skills.


Eric Isbister, the C.E.O. of GenMet, a metal-fabricating manufacturer outside Milwaukee, told me that he would hire as many skilled workers as show up at his door. Last year, he received 1,051 applications and found only 25 people who were qualified. He hired all of them, but soon had to fire 15. Part of Isbister’s pickiness, he says, comes from an avoidance of workers with experience in a “union-type job.” Isbister, after all, doesn’t abide by strict work rules and $30-an-hour salaries. At GenMet, the starting pay is $10 an hour. Those with an associate degree can make $15, which can rise to $18 an hour after several years of good performance. From what I understand, a new shift manager at a nearby McDonald’s can earn around $14 an hour.


The secret behind this skills gap is that it’s not a skills gap at all. I spoke to several other factory managers who also confessed that they had a hard time recruiting in-demand workers for $10-an-hour jobs. “It’s hard not to break out laughing,” says Mark Price, a labor economist at the Keystone Research Center, referring to manufacturers complaining about the shortage of skilled workers. “If there’s a skill shortage, there has to be rises in wages,” he says. “It’s basic economics.” After all, according to supply and demand, a shortage of workers with valuable skills should push wages up. Yet according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the number of skilled jobs has fallen and so have their wages.


In a recent study, the Boston Consulting Group noted that, outside a few small cities that rely on the oil industry, there weren’t many places where manufacturing wages were going up and employers still couldn’t find enough workers. “Trying to hire high-skilled workers at rock-bottom rates,” the Boston Group study asserted, “is not a skills gap.” The study’s conclusion, however, was scarier. Many skilled workers have simply chosen to apply their skills elsewhere rather than work for less, and few young people choose to invest in training for jobs that pay fast-food wages. As a result, the United States may soon have a hard time competing in the global economy. The average age of a highly skilled factory worker in the U.S. is now 56. “That’s average,” says Hal Sirkin, the lead author of the study. “That means there’s a lot who are in their 60s. They’re going to retire soon.” And there are not enough trainees in the pipeline, he said, to replace them.


One result, Sirkin suggests, is that the fake skills gap is threatening to create a real skills gap. Goldenberg, who has taught for more than 20 years, is already seeing it up close. Few of his top students want to work in factories for current wages.


In retrospect, the post-World War II industrial model did a remarkably good job of supporting a system in which an 18-year-old had access to on-the-job training that was nearly certain to pay off over a long career. That system had its flaws — especially a shared complacency that left manufacturers and laborers unprepared for global trade and technological change. Manufacturers, of course, have responded over the past 20 years by dismantling it. Yet Isbister’s complaint suggests some hope — that there’s a lack of skilled workers; that factory layoffs overshot, and now need a reversal. As we talked, it became clear that Isbister’s problem is part of a larger one. Isbister told me that he’s ready to offer training to high-school graduates, some of whom, he says, will eventually make good money. The problem, he finds, is that far too few graduate high school with the basic math and science skills that his company needs to compete. As he spoke, I realized that this isn’t a narrow problem facing the manufacturing industry. The so-called skills gap is really a gap in education, and that affects all of us.


basically, wages have declined while employers continue to decry a fake "skills gap." people aren't interested in going into fields that require extensive, formal education, for what the author calls "fast food wages." meanwhile, some employers are willing to hire and train high school grads (rather than post a job listing requiring a degree and 3-5 years of experience for an entry level job, as i'm sure everyone who's looked for a job recently has witnessed first hand), but students who are adequately prepared go on to college, while those who have no intention of going on to college are failed by the system.

guys like isbister need to be prepared to either hire "under-qualified" high school grads at "fast food wages," or offer wages competitive with other industries; meanwhile, the educational system should be reevaluated to determine whether or not opportunity exists to fix this alleged "education gap."

#2 MadHatter

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:02 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/25/magazine/skills-dont-pay-the-bills.html













basically, wages have declined while employers continue to decry a fake "skills gap." people aren't interested in going into fields that require extensive, formal education, for what the author calls "fast food wages." meanwhile, some employers are willing to hire and train high school grads (rather than post a job listing requiring a degree and 3-5 years of experience for an entry level job, as i'm sure everyone who's looked for a job recently has witnessed first hand), but students who are adequately prepared go on to college, while those who have no intention of going on to college are failed by the system.

guys like isbister need to be prepared to either hire "under-qualified" high school grads at "fast food wages," or offer wages competitive with other industries; meanwhile, the educational system should be reevaluated to determine whether or not opportunity exists to fix this alleged "education gap."


The company I work for has job openings for skilled manufacturing positions for months...all over the country. The com

#3 MadHatter

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/25/magazine/skills-dont-pay-the-bills.html













basically, wages have declined while employers continue to decry a fake "skills gap." people aren't interested in going into fields that require extensive, formal education, for what the author calls "fast food wages." meanwhile, some employers are willing to hire and train high school grads (rather than post a job listing requiring a degree and 3-5 years of experience for an entry level job, as i'm sure everyone who's looked for a job recently has witnessed first hand), but students who are adequately prepared go on to college, while those who have no intention of going on to college are failed by the system.

guys like isbister need to be prepared to either hire "under-qualified" high school grads at "fast food wages," or offer wages competitive with other industries; meanwhile, the educational system should be reevaluated to determine whether or not opportunity exists to fix this alleged "education gap."


The company I work for has job openings for skilled manufacturing positions for months...all over the country. The competition for these skills is intense and the salaries are very good for them.

People without skills are the ones getting hammered today.

Go to tech school and you will have multiple jobs waiting for you upon graduation.

#4 pstall

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:30 PM

i am curious about the type of job openings that are there and who is applying for them. i saw one i'm interested in that was similar to what i did and the previous bank and the starting salary is 5k less than what i was making and automatically i'm skittish about even going for it.

i agree the skills gap has been overplayed. in fact, look at the politicans on both sides who talk up the job training programs and such when basically companies could just bump up pay a bit more.

however, at the same time, you have to start somewhere and while 10 to 15 is below some people, you go in hungry and hustle then those in charge will see that and away you go. the cream rises to the top.

if you scoff at the pay rate in the interview don't expect a call. eating just a small bit of humble pie will make that filet mignon all the better as you work your way up.

#5 MadHatter

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:02 PM

i am curious about the type of job openings that are there and who is applying for them. i saw one i'm interested in that was similar to what i did and the previous bank and the starting salary is 5k less than what i was making and automatically i'm skittish about even going for it.

i agree the skills gap has been overplayed. in fact, look at the politicans on both sides who talk up the job training programs and such when basically companies could just bump up pay a bit more.

however, at the same time, you have to start somewhere and while 10 to 15 is below some people, you go in hungry and hustle then those in charge will see that and away you go. the cream rises to the top.

if you scoff at the pay rate in the interview don't expect a call. eating just a small bit of humble pie will make that filet mignon all the better as you work your way up.


Our company is constantly looking for experienced welders and experienced machinists (lathe operators, etc).

It is damn near impossible to find good qualified candidates.

#6 pstall

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:05 PM

more vocational schools are needed. one thing i have often wondered about is if there is also a job backlog due to some companies diversity policies? bofa and wachoiva/wells are very adamant about this and just wont hire


i know no media outlet wants to ask that question.



#7 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:12 PM

If only there was an entity that banded like minded highly skilled workers together to make sure that they got paid what their skills were worth for someone living in America instead of all of those workers having to convince job creators that giving up that third Cadillac was worth having highly skilled workers here instead of overseas.

If only

#8 pstall

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:53 PM

yeah unions are the savior. hardly.

#9 twylyght

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:09 AM

knowing what i know now, i would not have wasted my time with college and grad school. it simply did not provide any justifiable skillsets that are useable in the workforce. if higher education were truly going to be fixed, kids would not attend directly out of high school. we had no clue about what is viable as worthy skills when we took the classes. those of us that were aware were villified by academia at every turn.

#10 twylyght

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:12 AM

If only there was an entity that banded like minded highly skilled workers together to make sure that they got paid what their skills were worth for someone living in America instead of all of those workers having to convince job creators that giving up that third Cadillac was worth having highly skilled workers here instead of overseas.

If only


if only unions allowed competition to justify their existence rather than demand that businesses capitulate to their wants when the market won't support it.

#11 Kurb

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:31 AM

Our company is constantly looking for experienced welders and experienced machinists (lathe operators, etc).

It is damn near impossible to find good qualified candidates.



Why not have programs that take people who want to learn and educate them in exchange for time served at a slightly lower rat?. Then once they have payed back the schooling in time worked they can earn like "high skilled" workers .

#12 Panthers_Lover

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:16 AM

South Carolina provides customized worker training to new or expanding companies at little to no cost for the employer (and none for potential employee) as part of its incentive package. The workers are trained to specific jobs and specifications of the company. While there is no obligation to hire (and none to take a position), typically speaking, they are matched appropriately. If a worker is trained but not hired by that company, they still have transferable skills to take elsewhere.

#13 mmmbeans

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

Why not have programs that take people who want to learn and educate them in exchange for time served at a slightly lower rat?. Then once they have payed back the schooling in time worked they can earn like "high skilled" workers .


because companies don't want to pay to train their own workers.

#14 googoodan

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:30 PM

Our company is constantly looking for experienced welders and experienced machinists (lathe operators, etc).

It is damn near impossible to find good qualified candidates.


What is your company paying welders and machinists?

I know several unemployed welders and I know other welders who are qualified but would laugh at what your company wants to pay (myself included in that last category)

I know a person who was recently laid off as a lathe operator. She had worked this job for the past 15 years.


#15 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:36 PM

because companies don't want to pay to train their own workers.


This may be true in some cases (but certainly not all), and it surely doesn't make sense.

When we do hire, we hire college graduates and in general, they have NONE of the skills we need and have to be trained from the bottom up...

What I look for is a person that has software and file system management skills and that can and is willing to learn... if they have that, we can work with it, and we HAVE to train them.


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