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skills don't pay the bills


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#16 MadHatter

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:03 PM

Why not have programs that take people who want to learn and educate them in exchange for time served at a slightly lower rat?. Then once they have payed back the schooling in time worked they can earn like "high skilled" workers .


We actually have several apprentice type of programs where we do this. We hire many newly trained people and provide them on the job training. We also have entered into programs with local tech schools where we actually provide scholarships and training programs in conjunction with the school.

However, we had an aged workforce for these positions. As many have retired over the past several years, we were left light on experience.

#17 Kurb

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:15 PM

We actually have several apprentice type of programs where we do this. We hire many newly trained people and provide them on the job training. We also have entered into programs with local tech schools where we actually provide scholarships and training programs in conjunction with the school.

However, we had an aged workforce for these positions. As many have retired over the past several years, we were left light on experience.



Just not enough emphasis on trades.
I wish I had done several things different.
Learning a trade skill like Mason work or Welding is one of them.

#18 MadHatter

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

What is your company paying welders and machinists?

I know several unemployed welders and I know other welders who are qualified but would laugh at what your company wants to pay (myself included in that last category)

I know a person who was recently laid off as a lathe operator. She had worked this job for the past 15 years.


Most of our opportunities are in Wisconsin and Houston. Do any of your friends live in those areas?

And you comment about them "laughing at what our company would offer...including yourself" is a shame. I would say that someone unemployed would want to take a position making a good wage.

Oh wait....I forgot....they can just sit on their ass and draw unemployment and entitlements.

By your comments about them.....I doubt they meet our standards as good employees.

#19 MadHatter

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

Just not enough emphasis on trades.
I wish I had done several things different.
Learning a trade skill like Mason work or Welding is one of them.


I agree.

Really good and skilled machinists, etc are just damn hard to find.

#20 mmmbeans

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

Most of our opportunities are in Wisconsin and Houston. Do any of your friends live in those areas?

And you comment about them "laughing at what our company would offer...including yourself" is a shame. I would say that someone unemployed would want to take a position making a good wage.

Oh wait....I forgot....they can just sit on their ass and draw unemployment and entitlements.

By your comments about them.....I doubt they meet our standards as good employees.


when wages have been lowered to the point where unemployment garners a comparable amount of money... your solution is to get rid of unemployment and force people to work for lower wages?

lots of work + a lack of skilled labor= lower wages?


that's not how capitalism is supposed to work.

#21 MadHatter

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

when wages have been lowered to the point where unemployment garners a comparable amount of money... your solution is to get rid of unemployment and force people to work for lower wages?

lots of work + a lack of skilled labor= lower wages?


that's not how capitalism is supposed to work.


You just made my point. People would rather sit on their ass and draw a paycheck rather than work.

Second.....that is exactly how capitalism is supposed to work. Ever heard of supply and demand.

Lastly, I am talking about damn good wages for a skilled worker. It is just too easy today to get a paycheck without working....people have lost the desire to better their own lives.

#22 mmmbeans

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:57 PM

You just made my point. People would rather sit on their ass and draw a paycheck rather than work.

Second.....that is exactly how capitalism is supposed to work. Ever heard of supply and demand.

Lastly, I am talking about damn good wages for a skilled worker. It is just too easy today to get a paycheck without working....people have lost the desire to better their own lives.


excess work + lack of skilled labor= falling wages?


that's a hell of a supply/demand relationship you got there. and all because people can get $20k a year from the government?

totally.

#23 Niner National

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:12 PM

What is your company paying welders and machinists?

I know several unemployed welders and I know other welders who are qualified but would laugh at what your company wants to pay (myself included in that last category)

I know a person who was recently laid off as a lathe operator. She had worked this job for the past 15 years.

Welders and machinists at my dad's company make 45-55k a year. With overtime, many will reach 70k + this year.

#24 MadHatter

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:23 PM

Welders and machinists at my dad's company make 45-55k a year. With overtime, many will reach 70k + this year.


They laugh at those wages.

#25 MadHatter

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:24 PM

excess work + lack of skilled labor= falling wages?


that's a hell of a supply/demand relationship you got there. and all because people can get $20k a year from the government?

totally.


I am not sure about the falling wages. We are giving nice raises and nice signing bonuses to skilled positions.


#26 Chimera

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:08 PM

Welders and machinists at my dad's company make 45-55k a year. With overtime, many will reach 70k + this year.


When I did some welding in the late 1990s, I made $26/ hr OJT. Within two years, my hourly rate was $44/ hr. That was 2001. $70k a year would be a pay cut, not counting inflation.

#27 twylyght

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:37 AM

i WISH i made 44/hr as a network systems analyst

#28 MadHatter

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:06 AM

When I did some welding in the late 1990s, I made $26/ hr OJT. Within two years, my hourly rate was $44/ hr. That was 2001. $70k a year would be a pay cut, not counting inflation.


This attitude is EXACTLY why companies are moving jobs overseas. The wage expectations of many jobs (especially those controlled by unions) are ridiculous.

I guess those people would rather be unemployed than making $70k.

#29 Kurb

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:08 AM

This attitude is EXACTLY why companies are moving jobs overseas. The wage expectations of many jobs (especially those controlled by unions) are ridiculous.

I guess those people would rather be unemployed than making $70k.



It's posts like these where you lose people.
If you care.

One one hand we talk about how skilled labor jobs are needed.
How they are in high demand.
Then when someone mentions current pay is less than it was 11 years ago.
You scoff at the them.
All the while mentioning in other posts how you "make more in a month than (poster) does in a year"

One if the BIGGEST issues in America is the Suits make more than the Creators of things.

#30 twylyght

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:44 AM

It's posts like these where you lose people.
If you care.

One one hand we talk about how skilled labor jobs are needed.
How they are in high demand.
Then when someone mentions current pay is less than it was 11 years ago.
You scoff at the them.
All the while mentioning in other posts how you "make more in a month than (poster) does in a year"

One if the BIGGEST issues in America is the Suits make more than the Creators of things.


It is a global market now. We either deal with having to compete with everyone else and what that entails or we pay ourselves out of a job as many of the unions are intent on doing. In many cases, the SUITS are the ones that invested their time, equity, and risked their own collateral to get where they are. If you have executive SUITS that end up being the demise of a company, then the free market has done its job.

The problem is that we DON'T have a FREE MARKET as the bailouts continue to be used as a means of propping up bad business decisions at the expense of the American taxpayer. While Hong Kong continues to kick everyone else's ass in the world market, we are intent on staying the course and hoping that this whole global market thing will pass as a fad. Smarter corporations like Apple have invested in overseas ventures to ensure that their company will survive beyond the crony corporatism that is killing the American infrastructure as fast as it can.

In spite of this, the laws of supply and demand still apply. If you can justify your skill set then you can find a buyer for it if you can be a proper advocate for yourself. The beauty of a FREE MARKET would be that if things are that bad in the company that you are presently in and the industry is viable (and your skill set is worth what you think it is) you can find demand for your services elsewhere.

When it comes to the modern day American worker, the majority of us have a severely inflated sense of what we're worth when it comes to justifying our employment/wage. Hence, the attitude we have on display in this thread


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