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skills don't pay the bills


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#25 MadHatter

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:24 PM

excess work + lack of skilled labor= falling wages?


that's a hell of a supply/demand relationship you got there. and all because people can get $20k a year from the government?

totally.


I am not sure about the falling wages. We are giving nice raises and nice signing bonuses to skilled positions.


#26 Chimera

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:08 PM

Welders and machinists at my dad's company make 45-55k a year. With overtime, many will reach 70k + this year.


When I did some welding in the late 1990s, I made $26/ hr OJT. Within two years, my hourly rate was $44/ hr. That was 2001. $70k a year would be a pay cut, not counting inflation.

#27 twylyght

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:37 AM

i WISH i made 44/hr as a network systems analyst

#28 MadHatter

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:06 AM

When I did some welding in the late 1990s, I made $26/ hr OJT. Within two years, my hourly rate was $44/ hr. That was 2001. $70k a year would be a pay cut, not counting inflation.


This attitude is EXACTLY why companies are moving jobs overseas. The wage expectations of many jobs (especially those controlled by unions) are ridiculous.

I guess those people would rather be unemployed than making $70k.

#29 Kurb

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:08 AM

This attitude is EXACTLY why companies are moving jobs overseas. The wage expectations of many jobs (especially those controlled by unions) are ridiculous.

I guess those people would rather be unemployed than making $70k.



It's posts like these where you lose people.
If you care.

One one hand we talk about how skilled labor jobs are needed.
How they are in high demand.
Then when someone mentions current pay is less than it was 11 years ago.
You scoff at the them.
All the while mentioning in other posts how you "make more in a month than (poster) does in a year"

One if the BIGGEST issues in America is the Suits make more than the Creators of things.

#30 twylyght

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:44 AM

It's posts like these where you lose people.
If you care.

One one hand we talk about how skilled labor jobs are needed.
How they are in high demand.
Then when someone mentions current pay is less than it was 11 years ago.
You scoff at the them.
All the while mentioning in other posts how you "make more in a month than (poster) does in a year"

One if the BIGGEST issues in America is the Suits make more than the Creators of things.


It is a global market now. We either deal with having to compete with everyone else and what that entails or we pay ourselves out of a job as many of the unions are intent on doing. In many cases, the SUITS are the ones that invested their time, equity, and risked their own collateral to get where they are. If you have executive SUITS that end up being the demise of a company, then the free market has done its job.

The problem is that we DON'T have a FREE MARKET as the bailouts continue to be used as a means of propping up bad business decisions at the expense of the American taxpayer. While Hong Kong continues to kick everyone else's ass in the world market, we are intent on staying the course and hoping that this whole global market thing will pass as a fad. Smarter corporations like Apple have invested in overseas ventures to ensure that their company will survive beyond the crony corporatism that is killing the American infrastructure as fast as it can.

In spite of this, the laws of supply and demand still apply. If you can justify your skill set then you can find a buyer for it if you can be a proper advocate for yourself. The beauty of a FREE MARKET would be that if things are that bad in the company that you are presently in and the industry is viable (and your skill set is worth what you think it is) you can find demand for your services elsewhere.

When it comes to the modern day American worker, the majority of us have a severely inflated sense of what we're worth when it comes to justifying our employment/wage. Hence, the attitude we have on display in this thread

#31 pstall

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:59 AM

if more took jobs that were there, rock and rolled in their new role, then the quality and productivity of that company goes up. so does profit and more chance at higher earnings.

plus there is a cascading postive effect at the state level. the burden of unemployment subsides and more folks are on a payroll paying taxes and buying stuff, and paying sales taxes and then health benefits.

the labor log jam in its current state, may only be solved by some humility.

#32 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:11 AM

if more took jobs that were there, rock and rolled in their new role, then the quality and productivity of that company goes up. so does profit and more chance at higher earnings.

plus there is a cascading postive effect at the state level. the burden of unemployment subsides and more folks are on a payroll paying taxes and buying stuff, and paying sales taxes and then health benefits.

the labor log jam in its current state, may only be solved by some humility.


It's a cycle... a lot of companies are greedy and a lot of people don't want to WORK hard... those aren't the only problems, but they are major ones.

#33 Panthro

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:54 AM

Innovation and productivity have increased dramatically but for some reason incomes have not increased at the same rate and have even went down..

Productivity, hours per week, and income used to get along quite well. Now the American worker is more productive then they have ever been in history yet they work the same hours and now at a reduced rate because it helps the bottom line.

#34 Delhommey

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:33 PM

From what I've seen productivity has skyrocketed, but desire has taken a nose dive. I'd say that's most likely due to the top of the food chain pocketing the profits rather than trying to better their workforce.

That will destroy our whole economy eventually. If you truly love capitalism, you better be adopting some "socialist" policies soon.

#35 pstall

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:49 PM

I have said it many times. If a ceo created his or her biz from the ground up you can make as much as you want. If you were given the keys to an already running machine then only so much.
What figure or % is I don't know how you get there.
We should also put Congress under the scrutiny that ceos get. You can vote with your shares or wallet each year or quarter but 2 or 4 years with congress.
At worst we should have a similar health plan as them.