235 replies to this topic

[mmmbeans]

Wait, are you talking about Walmart or Apple?

one doesn't exclude the other. you wanna get down on apple, you won't hear a peep from me.

[Delhommey]

Wait, are you talking about Walmart or Apple?

[Davidson Deac II]

one doesn't exclude the other. you wanna get down on apple, you won't hear a peep from me.

That is good, I have discussed similar issues with many who will not criticise Apple, but will slam the practices of Walmart because most of Walmart's customers are poor or lower middle class.

Some criticism of the low end retailers such as Walmart are justified, but Walmart also has some market limits on what it can and can't do. If Walmart decides to dump the evil vendors, and go with a vendor who provides better working conditions for its own employees, cost goes up. Higher prices might mean they give up market share to another retailer who gets its products from that crappy vendor. Which of course doesn't help the workers for the crappy vendor and hurts walmart employees and shareholders.

Walmart would likely be just as happy if they could maintain their profit margin and pay more for the products they buy from these countries. I remember a few years ago, they even tried a buy american campaign. It failed miserably because the items were higher priced and people really didn't look at the labels. Shoppers want the cheap crap.

I guess the government could step in and perhaps place additional tariffs on imports from countries with poor employer policing, and that would level the playing field somewhat. But that also causes problems, as well as a lot of voter anger once prices start going up.

[mmmbeans]

That is good, I have discussed similar issues with many who will not criticise Apple, but will slam the practices of Walmart because most of Walmart's customers are poor or lower middle class.

Some criticism of the low end retailers such as Walmart are justified, but Walmart also has some market limits on what it can and can't do. If Walmart decides to dump the evil vendors, and go with a vendor who provides better working conditions for its own employees, cost goes up. Higher prices might mean they give up market share to another retailer who gets its products from that crappy vendor. Which of course doesn't help the workers for the crappy vendor and hurts walmart employees and shareholders.

Walmart would likely be just as happy if they could maintain their profit margin and pay more for the products they buy from these countries. I remember a few years ago, they even tried a buy american campaign. It failed miserably because the items were higher priced and people really didn't look at the labels. Shoppers want the cheap crap.

I guess the government could step in and perhaps place additional tariffs on imports from countries with poor employer policing, and that would level the playing field somewhat. But that also causes problems, as well as a lot of voter anger once prices start going up.

walmart controls the market, they literally dictate the price at which they will buy things from suppliers. I don't have sympathy for unethical companies because consumers are mindless zombies... Profit never will nor has it ever been a viable excuse for the mistreatment of human beings... Ethics and profit aren't mutually exclusive, especially for a company that is the very definition of economy of scale.

[Delhommey]

Walmart would likely be just as happy if they could maintain their profit margin and pay more for the products they buy from these countries. I remember a few years ago, they even tried a buy american campaign. It failed miserably because the items were higher priced and people really didn't look at the labels. Shoppers want the cheap crap.

Oh definitely. When I was a sales manager for an online appliance company, I'd get one escalation a week from some guy swearing at us because we sold too much cheap, Chinese made crap. He wanted an AMERICAN icemaker DAMMIT and would usually go on a 10 minute tirade about why we should buy quality US made products.

Of course when I directed him to the Made-In-Denver, CO, well-performing Scotsman machine he'd balk and say "But that's $200 more!" and hang up mad.

Dollars to doughnuts he turned right around and ordered the cheap piece of Chinese crap he cursed 30 minutes earlier.

[Davidson Deac II]

walmart controls the market, they literally dictate the price at which they will buy things from suppliers. I don't have sympathy for unethical companies because consumers are mindless zombies... Profit never will nor has it ever been a viable excuse for the mistreatment of human beings... Ethics and profit aren't mutually exclusive, especially for a company that is the very definition of economy of scale.

Control is an illusion.

In the end, the consumers control the market, as much as it can be controlled. I also have no sympathy for them, but I know that these things are going to happen with or without the existence of Walmart. Walmart's control only exist because they can get people to come to their store. If someone else beats their prices for the same stuff, then they will go away, just as Woolworth's did, as JCPenny, Sears/Kmart and several other retailers are in the process of doing.

I read an interesting paper a few months ago on comparisons between the current outsourcing to China, and the similar situations that happened when the British lost their textile dominance to cheaper labor the US, and then the New England states lost their textile dominance to cheaper labor in the southern US. WIsh I could find the links. But now the Chinese are worried about eventually losing their manufacturing dominance to other nations such as the philippines. Same story keeps repeating itself. Maybe (in a 150 years or so) things will cycle to the point where nations get to keep textile manufacturing inhouse. I think that would be a good thing.

[Davidson Deac II]

Fwiw, this thread caused me to search through my house for any textile product with Made in America on the label. Haven't found any yet.

[PhillyB]

Much better for those people to not have jobs than succomb to exploitation by Walmart and fat Americans.

that's what's so insidious about this though... they're making starvation-level wages with bare-bones subsistence literally spending their lives in the factories, and corporations exploiting their plight justify it with "well it's better than having no jobs at all, they should thank us"

[g5jamz]

that's what's so insidious about this though... they're making starvation-level wages with bare-bones subsistence literally spending their lives in the factories, and corporations exploiting their plight justify it with "well it's better than having no jobs at all, they should thank us"

Are you ready to spend your life trying to improve the living standard for every human on the planet?

That's what everyone's thinking Walmart is supposed to do here right?

If it's not Asia...it could be Africa. If it's not Africa...it could be an indigenous tribe in Brazil. If it's not an indigenous tribe in Brazil...it could be under the table workers here in the US that choose to work for cash without any reportable taxable income or benefits while getting welfare, housing subsidies, EBT cards, free healthcare, education, phones, etc.

[PhillyB]

Are you ready to spend your life trying to improve the living standard for every human on the planet?

yes are you?

[PhillyB]

it's easy to say "sucks for them lol" when you, through no effort of your own, were born into a time and place where circumstances allowed you to succeed. you don't have to walk an hour to work at 5am because your $0.11 an hour wage doesn't let you afford to ride a rickshaw (the bus system is for a higher economic bracket) to work, where you'll inhale dust and mildew for 20 straight hours with two piss breaks, a lunch break on the open roof (usually in the rain) scraping noodles out of a plastic cup from your knees and then get the poo beat out of you for not sewing pockets on fast enough

if that was you born into that system there's really no way you'd be so cavalier about it