Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

koolkatluke

Just looking at the teams who might draft before us.

47 posts in this topic

Ben Gordon is a SG and Duhon backed up Hinrich the whole time he was in Chicago.

So, who's spinning the truth?

Ben Gordon handles the ball just as much as any PG and Chris Duhon was getting pretty good Minutes a game for a back-up. Not to mention that Kirk just like Ben played SG to.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2377/chris-duhon

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1981/kirk-hinrich

Now pick up your face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben Gordon handles the ball just as much as any PG and Chris Duhon was getting pretty good Minutes a game for a back-up. Not to mention that Kirk just like Ben played SG to.

http://espn.go.com/n...377/chris-duhon

http://espn.go.com/n...81/kirk-hinrich

Now pick up your face.

Saying that Chris Duhon was the 6th main in Chicago proves what exactly? He still backed Hinrich up.

And this still has nothing to do with your original argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saying that Chris Duhon was the 6th main in Chicago proves what exactly? He still backed Hinrich up.

And this still has nothing to do with your original argument.

What about the fact that Hinrich was just as much of a SG as Ben Gordon? Which they have him listed as just like Ben Gordon.

As for the original Debate. Like I said Hinrich was more of a avg pg/sg. So the team Drafted a pure PG (Rose) as a need.

I issued a challege that I can name more teams that drafted for need in the last 10 years. Then you can name teams that drafted BPA.

Either step up or shut up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that this really matters, because I would draft BPA over need just about anytime, but Kirk was definitely the main ball handler, and the PG of those Bulls teams. Gordon was their main scorer and mostly a catch and shoot guy that could still create his own shot. Kirk is only listed as a SG right now, because that's what he's played the last few years. I think that teams generally draft for need early on (unless there is a much better player available), and draft BPA in the latter part of the draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that this really matters, because I would draft BPA over need just about anytime, but Kirk was definitely the main ball handler, and the PG of those Bulls teams. Gordon was their main scorer and mostly a catch and shoot guy that could still create his own shot. Kirk is only listed as a SG right now, because that's what he's played the last few years. I think that teams generally draft for need early on (unless there is a much better player available), and draft BPA in the latter part of the draft.

Stats say different.

1. In 5-7 less min per game Duhon was avg. 1 less ast. Who was the Primary Ball handler when Duhon was in the game?

Duhon

2. Gordon and Hinrich were taking the same amount of shots a game. So there were no set position in the backcourt (unless Duhon was in there) either of them could bring the ball up or could start the play.

3. Kirk ast. numbers went down when Duhon and Gordon got on the team.

His rookie year was his highest 6.8 a game. The numbers declined when Duhon and Gordon was drafted the next year. Showing he gave up some of the pg guard duties.

Doesn't change my point If Kirk was so good at PG. Why were the Bulls always looking for better options? They drafted a pure PG and a PG/SG the next year.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1981/kirk-hinrich

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2381/ben-gordon

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2377/chris-duhon

Now I agree teams go for need in the lottery and BPA later in the 1st round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stats say different.

1. In 5-7 less min per game Duhon was avg. 1 less ast. Who was the Primary Ball handler when Duhon was in the game?

Duhon

2. Gordon and Hinrich were taking the same amount of shots a game. So there were no set position in the backcourt (unless Duhon was in there) either of them could bring the ball up or could start the play.

3. Kirk ast. numbers went down when Duhon and Gordon got on the team.

His rookie year was his highest 6.8 a game. The numbers declined when Duhon and Gordon was drafted the next year. Showing he gave up some of the pg guard duties.

Doesn't change my point If Kirk was so good at PG. Why were the Bulls always looking for better options? They drafted a pure PG and a PG/SG the next year.

http://espn.go.com/n...81/kirk-hinrich

http://espn.go.com/n...2381/ben-gordon

http://espn.go.com/n...377/chris-duhon

Now I agree teams go for need in the lottery and BPA later in the 1st round.

Oh, I'm not disputing that Hinrich wasn't a pure PG or that he wasn't ever anything more than a better than average NBA starting PG.

Duhon had a usage rate of between 13% and 15%. His assist % was between 24% and 28%. His Assists Per 36 Min was between 6 and about 6 and a half assists per game.

Hinrich had a usage rate between 18% and 22%. His assist % was between 29% and 32%. His Assists Per 36 Min was between roughly 6 and a half to 7.

While Gordon only took a couple of more shots per game than Hinrich did, they did have set positions. Hinrich was the PG (who could slide over to the 2-guard spot at times because of his size), and Gordon was a SG who wasn't capable of playing PG. Hinrich's assist numbers went down very very very slightly, but that is to be expected when you add a solid PG (at the time) in Duhon, and a 2-guard who needs the ball in his hands a little bit in Gordon. Even with Duhon and Gordon on the team, Kirk's assist numbers only went down by 0.5-0.6 assists per game (per 36 min), and actually the season before Rose arrived, he was averaging 6.8 assists per 36 min, which would match his career high. Rose was drafted the following year (picked because of a mix of him being BPA and because they could upgrade at the PG position, although it wasn't necessarily a "need").

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the original Debate. Like I said Hinrich was more of a avg pg/sg. So the team Drafted a pure PG (Rose) as a need.

I issued a challege that I can name more teams that drafted for need in the last 10 years. Then you can name teams that drafted BPA.

Either step up or shut up.

It doesn't matter. If you're trying to argue that Chicago drafted Rose for need and not because he was the BPA, you'd probably argue that Minny took Williams and Utah drafted Enes Kanter out of need.

You're, literally, too stupid to argue with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are no absolutes, but generally, since big men are more valuable, teams

will take a talented big even if they don't need them. They have higher trade value,

and make more expensive bigs on the roster become trade bait too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Krik was avg. and Rose was the hometown kid. Olny YES! YES! YES! thought it might be Beasley. Most people knew Rose was doing to Chicago.

Rose came off taking his team to the National Championship game. How did Beasley have a better college year then Rose?

Love and Jefferson are seen as 2 different Positions. Jefferson is a C and Love is a PF. They could have and should be playing together. Minny GM is just stupid. They wasted picks on 2 Pg in the same draft Back to back. With Demar Derozen still on the board.

Beasley had a much better college season, and would have been the national player of the year if it werent for Hansbrough taking most of the honors that year. Rose was a better fit from an NBA perspective, but some poeple thought Beasley should go 1. By the time the draft finally came around though everyone knew Chicago was picking Rose.

I dont know how you can claim Minny should be playing Jefferson and Love together. They tried that, didnt work (possibly could have worked on offense, no chance on defense), so they had to move Jefferson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't matter. If you're trying to argue that Chicago drafted Rose for need and not because he was the BPA, you'd probably argue that Minny took Williams and Utah drafted Enes Kanter out of need.

You're, literally, too stupid to argue with.

Like I said dumbass. Over and over again I can name more teams in the last 10 years that drafted for need then BPA.

Either take the challege or run away with your tail between your leg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I had always assumed she was dardaroarroar
    • elton simpson was monitored over a 9 year period (fbi claims there were breaks but at the least there were still years of monitoring) and at least $132,000 in cash was spent on one informant alone. here's the fbi's version in the immediate aftermath of the shooting:   Three hours before gunmen attacked an anti-Prophet Muhammad event in Garland, Texas on Sunday, the FBI sent a bulletin to local police with a photo of one of the shooters, Elton Simpson, noting that he was "interested in the event," FBI director James Comey said. At the time, the FBI had no reason to believe that Simpson intended to attack the event, Comey told reporters Thursday. Nor did the agency know that Simpson was already on his way there. Comey also said that he does not believe that the police officer who shot Simpson and the second gunman, Soofi Nadir, was aware of the bulletin. He went on to say that while the investigation of the Phoenix gunmen is far from complete, Comey believes the FBI acted appropriately. ..... Two weeks before the Garland event, which invited artists to draw illustrations of Muhammad, the FBI and Homeland Security warned law enforcement agencies across the country that it was at risk of being targeted by Islamic extremists. The advisory noted that supporters of ISIS and other terror groups had posted links to the contest on Twitter. Simpson was reading those posts, and communicated with an American in Somalia who'd called for attacking the event, investigators have said. The FBI then developed information that Simpson might be interested in traveling to Garland, Comey said. The Sunday bulletin followed. ..... The FBI now has hundreds of investigations of potential home grown extremists under way, with cases open in every state. "I know there are other Elton Simpsons out there," Comey said. Finding them, however, is a "very hard task," he said. Investigators can follow messages that are posted on public twitter accounts. But ISIS recruiters are steering people off Twitter into encrypted forums, which the government cannot see, Comey said. "Its the old going-dark problem, in living color," said Comey. He added: "We have hundreds working on it around the clock. But in almost every case of violence, someone saw something. A friend, a family member. Its more important than ever for people to speak up."     ^^^just a reminder for the bolded parts that a federal agent was in the car directly behind them as they opened their doors and began their short lived attack
    • Looks like it has potential. BvS was terrible. I will say the extended version was a better film but still not good. Suicide Squad was one of the worst films I've seen in a while.  That said of course I will waste my money and go see this. I hope they bring back Batman's more cunning qualities in future films. I got the sense that in BvS he was a what you see is what you get type of guy. You don't get the feeling that he has something up his sleeve at all times. Which was something Nolan/Bale had, almost Bond-esque.