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Obama's version of cliff negotiations include giving executive branch power to raise debt limit

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No wonder McConnell laughed at Geitner.

[url="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/11/29/fiscal-cliff-offer-boehner-geithner/1735873/"]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/11/29/fiscal-cliff-offer-boehner-geithner/1735873/[/url]

[quote]
Complicating the negotiations is a further disagreement over whether any deal should include an increase in the debt ceiling, which needs congressional approval. The $16.4 trillion borrowing limit is expected to hit in mid-February, and Obama has said he wants to head off another painful fight with Congress that threatens to rattle markets.
The president's proposal to circumvent congressional approval to lift the debt ceiling is one of the more unacceptable provisions for Boehner, who continues to maintain his position that any increase in the debt ceiling must be paired dollar-for-dollar with spending cuts.[/quote]

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I take it these were, ahem, cliff notes?

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i'm not economic expert but there really is no easy way out of this. that 6.07B cut in spending would be incredibly useful but the following economic dip is gonna wreak havoc.

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Sign more people up on disability, give more free benefits to..... sorry, forgot the election had already taken place.

Never mind, damage done. Can't take back all the freebies now, especially since that is what got you 4 more years.

Like I said in a thread a couple weeks back, Obama is going to negotiate through the media.

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[quote name='stirs' timestamp='1354317228' post='2024369']
Sign more people up on disability, give more free benefits to..... sorry, forgot the election had already taken place.

Never mind, damage done. Can't take back all the freebies now, especially since that is what got you 4 more years.

Like I said in a thread a couple weeks back, Obama is going to negotiate through the media.
[/quote]

i've never considered myself very befitting of the hippie peace-lover type, but honestly considering the level of cash we spend on military operations i'd be pretty ok with allowing the offensive disgrace of egalitarian altruism in exchange for shaving, say, five or ten percent off the annual military budget.

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I do not have a problem with a 10% deacrease in military budget, nor with raising the top end rates(however, if you do not get rid of loopholes, it will do little good), but, the issue is with entitlements. Pubs have said they would move on some tax stuff, Dems have dug in on entitlements.

Obama is still on stage

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[quote name='stirs' timestamp='1354318245' post='2024384']
I do not have a problem with a 10% deacrease in military budget, nor with raising the top end rates(however, if you do not get rid of loopholes, it will do little good), but, the issue is with entitlements. Pubs have said they would move on some tax stuff, Dems have dug in on entitlements.

Obama is still on stage
[/quote]

what is your opinion on the bush tax cut extensions? i'm pretty sure that's a significant part of the fiscal cliff budget slashes, as they're set to expire at the same time. can we lose the revenue? if i read correctly obama said he plans to extend the cuts for the bottom 98% of households

edit: also what do you mean by entitlements?

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Take it all out of the defensive spending. We don't need that many tanks and ships and missiles. We already have more than the rest of the world combined.

But no, they want to go after social security and medicare and veterans benefits. That's why you lost and you will keep losing
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the defense budget is already going to go down. troop drawdown was brought up in 06 so the natural timeline is about to happen.

again guys use your heads. do you want your govt spending even MORE of YOUR money in the same ole bad way OR, would you prefer more people working?

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I'm cool with going over the fiscal cliff. 10% across the board domestic and military spending.

Economy needs to just wait until we get our house in order.

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[quote name='g5jamz' timestamp='1354324567' post='2024480']
I'm cool with going over the fiscal cliff. 10% across the board domestic and military spending.

Economy needs to just wait until we get our house in order.
[/quote]

the problem is, if the economy dips again, unemployment goes up, revenue goes down, and spending goes up for stuff like unemployment and food stamps, worsening the problem. you've got to find a way to strike a delicate balance.

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[quote name='PhillyB' timestamp='1354339937' post='2024680']


the problem is, if the economy dips again, unemployment goes up, revenue goes down, and spending goes up for stuff like unemployment and food stamps, worsening the problem. you've got to find a way to strike a delicate balance.
[/quote]

I used to think the same way, you know, that there could be a problem. But I realized that there is not anything to worry about.

All unemployed just sign up for a couple years and then go to disability. Then, we just print more money. No problem. Where have you been the last few years?

This is how we roll. Your inner economist just wake up? No use in doing anything hard here.

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[quote name='PhillyB' timestamp='1354339937' post='2024680']

the problem is, if the economy dips again, unemployment goes up, revenue goes down, and spending goes up for stuff like unemployment and food stamps, worsening the problem. you've got to find a way to strike a delicate balance.
[/quote]

You're under the impression the economy is going to rebound with Obamacare?

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Where my company takes a small hit on DoD spending we should make up that loss 2x in the healthcare market because of Obamacare.

Also I've thought about venturing out and starting my own company. I feel a lot more secure being entrepreneurial with Obamacare in place than I did previously.

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[quote name='Panthro' timestamp='1354368580' post='2024772']
Where my company takes a small hit on DoD spending we should make up that loss 2x in the healthcare market because of Obamacare.

Also I've thought about venturing out and starting my own company. I feel a lot more secure being entrepreneurial with Obamacare in place than I did previously.
[/quote]

go ahead, do it.

Quit using your baiting rhetoric and go ahead and invest a bunch of your rusty money. Let's see you libs put your money where your mouth is. "Obama is good for business", I mean, you hear that every day.

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Because you don't have to care about your employees healthcare and just pay the fine right?

Way to suck the teat of Santa.

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[quote name='stirs' timestamp='1354368961' post='2024774']


go ahead, do it.

Quit using your baiting rhetoric and go ahead and invest a bunch of your rusty money. Let's see you libs put your money where your mouth is. "Obama is good for business", I mean, you hear that every day.
[/quote]

I'm building the software package in my spare time. Don't rush me bro.

Higher Corp Tax Fallacy


The higher the corporate tax the more money I'd keep in the company. Invest, expand, hire.

The lower it is the more money id take out personally.



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[quote name='g5jamz' timestamp='1354368996' post='2024775']
Because you don't have to care about your employees healthcare and just pay the fine right?

Way to suck the teat of Santa.
[/quote]thats what Walmart does - Capitalism amirite????

I haven't made a dime yet. Let me make some green before I start employing thousands the first week.

Actually being able to afford healthcare on my own without being denied because of past issues.

And if I couldn't find private healthcare I'd pay into Obamacare.

My risks are

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welcome to slavehood

Your government masters approve.

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So that's slavery? No wonder you think it wasn't that big of a deal.

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[quote name='g5jamz' timestamp='1354369982' post='2024782']
welcome to slavehood

Your government masters approve.
[/quote]

You should be picketing the billionaires that are paying below livable wages and having the tax payers pick up the insurance just to help their bottom line. Why demonize me.

Oh that's right it's just lip service republicans give to small businesses.

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Who determines the livable wage? While I agree there are many shady ceos sticking it to people how does higher taxes cause them to adjust wages so someone makes more?

It seems the wage thing is in the eye of the beholder as well as cost of living.
The main reason jobs in CA pay more is the costs/taxes to live there are crazy.
Its a tough pickle no doubt aout it.

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[quote name='pstall' timestamp='1354371782' post='2024791']
Who determines the livable wage? While I agree there are many shady ceos sticking it to people how does higher taxes cause them to adjust wages so someone makes more?

It seems the wage thing is in the eye of the beholder as well as cost of living.
The main reason jobs in CA pay more is the costs/taxes to live there are crazy.
Its a tough pickle no doubt aout it.
[/quote]

You are mixing two different talking points

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Not really. Taxes for a biz can determine what they pay. Isn't that the reason some states offer tax incentives?
With that wages are supposedly to line up with taxes and the col in a particular state.

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[img]http://www.publiusforum.com/images/obama_santa_claus.jpg[/img]

I'm probably on Obama's naughty list because I'm an R.

[url="http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/30/obama-warns-hes-got-naughty-and-nice-list/"]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/30/obama-warns-hes-got-naughty-and-nice-list/[/url]

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