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Our new coaching staff..


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#25 RufftownRepresent

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:37 AM

yeah let's draft another linebacker in the top half of the draft

while we're at it we should also shop our 2014 first round pick around so we can trade back in to the first and draft a running back.

really what is this obsession some people have with luxury picks? at some point we're going to have to compromise and take need over BPA especially if a monster like lotulelei is on the board. it doesn't matter if te'o is "another ray lewis"-you realize that ray lewis has haloti freaking ngata, the best nose tackle in the league, eating up blocks for him, right? whatever configuration of linebackers we could come up with in our regular old 4-3 would be disgusting if we had an elite nose tackle chewing up blocks up front.

who would our nose tackle be in a 3-4 anyway, sione fua?


Ngata isn't the NT for the Ravens, he's the DT/DE position. Kemo is their starting NT.

But yeah, I agree with your point. We need to stop thinking about these positions that we are loaded at. This is why the BPA draft strategy only works if you have an already winning team, not a team needing lots of pieces.

#26 I Mean He Was Found Guilty

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:39 AM

Ngata isn't the NT for the Ravens, he's the DT/DE position. Kemo is their starting NT.

But yeah, I agree with your point. We need to stop thinking about these positions that we are loaded at. This is why the BPA draft strategy only works if you have an already winning team, not a team needing lots of pieces.


he gets some snaps at nose tackle on occasion. i edited my post to clarify after the fact but you beat me to it. i always think incorrectly of ngata as their NT but it's true that they brought maake back in.

#27 KissMyConverse

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:42 AM

Star is actually a DE in a 34. He's not big enough to be a true NT.

Think Haloti Ngata.


I actually had this conversation with my buddy yesterday during the SEC championship. He figures there are only about 4 to 5 real NT in the NFL Ngata being his favorite. We got into the conversation of who he would draft if the Top LT/DT/CB/S/WR were on the board. We both agreed on DT, where we differed is I was ok with stay 4-3 but he would go 3-4 in a heartbeat....
We got into the discussion of can Star be a NT. I said the "experts" think he could play either.

But to be 100% honest with you I have zero clue since I haven't watched him play enough. One of the guys over at an inferior site threw up the dream scenario of KC letting Dorsey walk us signing him cheep (he is being misused and is better as a 4-3 DT) and drafting Star.
Hardy/Star/Dorsey/Johnson is a line you could put up against any team.
Of course where do we get the money and the magician to pull it off.

#28 RufftownRepresent

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

I actually had this conversation with my buddy yesterday during the SEC championship. He figures there are only about 4 to 5 real NT in the NFL Ngata being his favorite. We got into the conversation of who he would draft if the Top LT/DT/CB/S/WR were on the board. We both agreed on DT, where we differed is I was ok with stay 4-3 but he would go 3-4 in a heartbeat....
We got into the discussion of can Star be a NT. I said the "experts" think he could play either.

But to be 100% honest with you I have zero clue since I haven't watched him play enough. One of the guys over at an inferior site threw up the dream scenario of KC letting Dorsey walk us signing him cheep (he is being misused and is better as a 4-3 DT) and drafting Star.
Hardy/Star/Dorsey/Johnson is a line you could put up against any team.
Of course where do we get the money and the magician to pull it off.


Again, Ngata isn't the Ravens' NT. Kemo is their NT, along with Terrence Cody when he's not too fat to play. Ngata plays the outside DE/DT position in the 34.

#29 KissMyConverse

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:47 AM

Again, Ngata isn't the Ravens' NT. Kemo is their NT, along with Terrence Cody when he's not too fat to play. Ngata plays the outside DE/DT position in the 34.


I really thought he played under center.

#30 I Mean He Was Found Guilty

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:47 AM

ruff's having to work overtime in this thread.

#31 RufftownRepresent

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:52 AM

I really thought he played under center.


He does some, but if I had to guess, I would say that it's < 20% of the snaps in a game.

But, at the next level, Star is definitely a Ngata-comparable player. He's quick, he can shed blockers, he can bull rush. Star has a couple of questions, though. The main one being that a DT should dominate opposing college offensive lines if they're going to get drafted highly. He hasn't done that this year, at all. Against Mountain West competition. Is that because he's being double and tripled team? Maybe.

#32 KissMyConverse

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

Why is it that we all think Ngata is a NT?
I feel lied to.

On that note though he causes a lot of havoc playing DE in a 3-4 and we just need a fatty to play NT (Or a well conditioned athlete in the case of Wilfork) would you draft Star to play 3-4 DE?
I know Walter has him listed as the #1 NT but if he works better playing like Ngata I'm game for whatever makes our Defense monsters.

#33 KissMyConverse

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:57 AM

He does some, but if I had to guess, I would say that it's < 20% of the snaps in a game.

But, at the next level, Star is definitely a Ngata-comparable player. He's quick, he can shed blockers, he can bull rush. Star has a couple of questions, though. The main one being that a DT should dominate opposing college offensive lines if they're going to get drafted highly. He hasn't done that this year, at all. Against Mountain West competition. Is that because he's being double and tripled team? Maybe.


Utah moved to the Pac-12.
And I thought the general rule of thumb is you can't judge a DT based off stats. They are really all about the eye tests and how many blocks they can eat up.

#34 RufftownRepresent

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

Why is it that we all think Ngata is a NT?
I feel lied to.

On that note though he causes a lot of havoc playing DE in a 3-4 and we just need a fatty to play NT (Or a well conditioned athlete in the case of Wilfork) would you draft Star to play 3-4 DE?
I know Walter has him listed as the #1 NT but if he works better playing like Ngata I'm game for whatever makes our Defense monsters.


I'd definitely draft him to play a 34 DE, he could be a monster at the next level. He's a very high-risk/high-reward player, though, so I don't know if I would draft him in the Top 5.

As far as a NT, honestly Ron Edwards (if he can come back from two pretty severe injuries) played NT in Kansas City, so he's an option, even if he's just a rotational player. Fua was a NT in college in a 34, and could definitely player better there than in at the NT position in a 43.

However, if I was looking to draft players for a 34, I would look at players like Jackson Jeffcoat from Texas (might drop to the early 2nd because of a pectoral injury) who is very similar to a Whitney Mercilus or Ryan Kerrigan. Can be a stand-up, drop into coverage guy, can be a hand in the dirt pass-rusher, or can be a hybrid of both.

Then there's Alex Okafor, also from Texas, who is more similar to a JJ Watt style player. More suited at the DE position in a 34, but can be incredibly disruptive.

Then there's guys like Jesse Williams, from Alabama, who could dominate the game from the NT position in a 34.

#35 Doc Holiday

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

camon guys... you dont want a combo of Te'o/Keek?? dude...

we dont NEED that, but thats like never ending potential right there.. like I cant even process that

The truth is, we are going to part ways with some players we are going to miss, but we will get draft picks/ players for them that will fill our needs.

..............................................Martin...................................................................Godfrey...........................................................

.......................................................................TE"O...............KEUCKLY..........................................................................................

Norman.................................Alexander...........Dwan......Ron.....Hardy..............CJ....................................Gamble.....................


I mean you could switch any of those guys around on the Dline, I dont even have Anderson and Beason on there. Anderson could be an OLB. Dont forget about draft pick/ players we traded for to come in and fill in. idk i just think the Te'o + Keukly would just be insane.. and not TOO drastic of wholes on Defense. i mean seriously compensate an open cap from released/ traded players and picks and we could be set. Dont forget Norman and Alexander were late 4th and 5th round!

that's only 10 players you have there Vince Lombardi

#36 RufftownRepresent

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:05 AM

Utah moved to the Pac-12.
And I thought the general rule of thumb is you can't judge a DT based off stats. They are really all about the eye tests and how many blocks they can eat up.


You're right, sorry about that. Still, the level of competition isn't that great (minus Oregon, Oregon State, and USC to a degree).

But, you're right, it is hard to judge a DT from the stand-point of stats. But, if you're going to draft a guy in the Top 5 at the DT position, he needs to be like a Suh-esque player. Just unblockable. I'm not sure if Star is that player.

Can Star be great? Absolutely. But, like I said, I think he's a high-risk/high-reward player. He could boom more than any DT in a long time (with the exclusion of Suh) or he could bust like we've never seen.