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Game #16 Bobcats vs Trail Blazers


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#157 ZB1224

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

Stats do lie to an extent though.

Just like if someone has a high shooting percentage doesn't necessarily make them a good shooter. Or say, a high number of steals doesn't makes necessarily make you a good on-ball defender. Basketball is much more subjective of a sport than the stats tell you. You have to watch them on court. I use stats as a supplementary measure not my primary measure.


Well, I would say that you are looking at the wrong stats tbh. FG% isn't what you should be looking at to see how good a player is at shooting... same with steals and being a good on-ball defender. There are stats out there that can tell you good how a player defends, shoots, rebounds, etc. There are also measurements that tell you how good a player defends iso's, pick n roll's, in the post, etc. I agree that stats aren't everything, but they tell the story... just not the whole story.

#158 Implied Volatility

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:51 PM

Mullens is not an above average defensive rebounder like the stats make him seem. He doesn't pass the eye test for the simple fact that he gives up too many 2nd chance opportunities. And he doesn't get the kind of boards that above average rebounders in the NBA get on a regular basis. Mullens is one of the main reasons that the Cats give up the 2nd most offensive rebounds a/game. It's not just his poor boxing out, but also his terrible defense in general, many times resulting in his teammates being left out of position on the boards.

I want Haywood at center if the Cats need to stop a run or get a defensive rebound late in the game. Not Mullens. Mullens has the tools to be a damn good rebounder. However at this point I consider him to be a slightly below average rebounder among starting bigs. I hope this last game was his wake up call.

#159 HeatCheck

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

Well, I would say that you are looking at the wrong stats tbh. FG% isn't what you should be looking at to see how good a player is at shooting... same with steals and being a good on-ball defender. There are stats out there that can tell you good how a player defends, shoots, rebounds, etc. There are also measurements that tell you how good a player defends iso's, pick n roll's, in the post, etc. I agree that stats aren't everything, but they tell the story... just not the whole story.


That's what I am saying. I never look to those stats to determine if a player is a good shooter or if someone is a good defender. I watch the games. That's the best evaluator.

What I am also saying is that REB% doesn't tell the whole story and doesn't mean someone is a better rebounder if their's is higher. Stats shouldn't be the primary thing you look at.

Yes, Mullens has improved in getting more rebounds but Haywood is still a better rebounder. Mullens can be unreliable when we need a big rebound. I think a lot of that has to do with being a poor defender. His lack of defense puts him in a bad position to rebound. He benefits a lot from his height and athleticism not fundamentals.

#160 ZB1224

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:13 PM

We will just have to agree to disagree. I'm by no means a Byron Mullens fan (for obvious reasons), but I believe that he is a slightly above average defensive rebounder. He is a very average rebounder overall, but when he is on the court he grabs a good chunk of defensive rebounds. His defensive rebounding is about the only thing that I like about him... other then him being able to stretch the floor, but well, he can't hit jumpers consistently at all so that's hardly a strength. He does hurt us more than help though. We just have no other options that could do any better.

#161 HeatCheck

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:20 PM

See, I think you are using the stats primarily to make that statement about him being an above average rebounder on the defensive side. I think that's generous as I see him as an average defensive rebounder. He does rack up some rebounds but not all of them are because he out powers and out positions opposing players.

I'm not equating all of Mullens defensive rebounds to this but if I had to bet he is used as the trailer in transition offense. As a a result, players like Haywood are taught to get a head start on offense. That's something stats can't account for.

#162 ZB1224

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:21 PM

That's what I am saying. I never look to those stats to determine if a player is a good shooter or if someone is a good defender. I watch the games. That's the best evaluator.

What I am also saying is that REB% doesn't tell the whole story and doesn't mean someone is a better rebounder if their's is higher. Stats shouldn't be the primary thing you look at.

Yes, Mullens has improved in getting more rebounds but Haywood is still a better rebounder. Mullens can be unreliable when we need a big rebound. I think a lot of that has to do with being a poor defender. His lack of defense puts him in a bad position to rebound. He benefits a lot from his height and athleticism not fundamentals.


I agree with most of what you, as well as others are saying, but I just believe that Mullens is a solid defensive rebounder. Haywood is a better overall rebounder (although he hasn't been too great on the defensive boards).

Stats aren't the primary thing that I look at, because like I said, they do tell the story, but not the whole story. Typically stats will back up the eye test, and there's a reason for that. I think that it's pretty clear that Mullens is poor at boxing out, but the fact of the matter is that he grabs a good percentage of rebounds on defense.

#163 HeatCheck

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:25 PM

But does he grab them because he is a good rebounder or does he grab them because of other reasons? (ex: length, athleticism, transition offense)

#164 ZB1224

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:43 PM

But does he grab them because he is a good rebounder or does he grab them because of other reasons? (ex: length, athleticism, transition offense)


Well, that's debatable. I would say mostly a mix of being a solid rebounder, athleticism, and length. Either way, he grabs a good percentage of defensive rebounds, so he's getting it done.