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For those of you that want to cut Jordan Gross...


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#76 MHS831

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

Gross has the 2nd highest average salary for a left tackle, behind only Joe Thomas. His cap hit is $11.5 million. That is only reasonable if you are the best at the position, and Jordan is not.

LT's typically don't hit FA if they are any good, so if we decide to replace Gross we will probably have to do it through the draft. One thing is clear though. Whether we re-negotiate his salary or trade him or cut him, Jordan is going to have to be ready to play for less money. I don't see any way the Panthers or any other team ponies up $11+ million for Gross in 2013.


I thought I read he was sitting around $8 million. Heck, if he is at $11.5, I agree. I also agree that he is going to have to play for less money. I am not sure he would take a pay cut to stay on a losing team-I would cut that figure in half to keep him.

I am actually in favor of replacing Gross now for a few reasons:
1. He is getting old .
2. We could sign 2 free agents and pay a top draft pick with the room he would create by leaving.
3. He is a leader who is engrained in the losing culture. Not his fault, but losing affects your brain.

Gross should be good enough to trade to a contender after a reworked contract is in place. It would be nice to add a 4th rounder, 2 free agents, and draft a LT.

#77 Marguide

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 07:50 PM

I thought I read he was sitting around $8 million. Heck, if he is at $11.5, I agree. I also agree that he is going to have to play for less money.


Here's where the difference comes from...

His salary this year is indeed $8.5 million. However, he received a $2 million roster bonus as well. The other million is the cap charge allocated annually from his original signing bonus.

Everything stays the same next year except his base goes up by $200,000, so the hit next year is $11.7 million.

One option would be to re-sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal with a signing bonus in the $10 million range and non-guaranteed salaries in the range of $5 million per year average, with year 1 lower and year 3 higher. He'd still be well paid and we would get some nice savings against the cap.

Should we then replace him in 2014, we could do it without a big cap charge.

A lot depends on what they want to do with the 1st round pick. As you correctly stated, you typically need to spend a high 1st to get a top notch LT in the draft.

#78 MHS831

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:52 PM

Here's where the difference comes from...

His salary this year is indeed $8.5 million. However, he received a $2 million roster bonus as well. The other million is the cap charge allocated annually from his original signing bonus.

Everything stays the same next year except his base goes up by $200,000, so the hit next year is $11.7 million.

One option would be to re-sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal with a signing bonus in the $10 million range and non-guaranteed salaries in the range of $5 million per year average, with year 1 lower and year 3 higher. He'd still be well paid and we would get some nice savings against the cap.

Should we then replace him in 2014, we could do it without a big cap charge.

A lot depends on what they want to do with the 1st round pick. As you correctly stated, you typically need to spend a high 1st to get a top notch LT in the draft.


I count on guys like you to keep me aware of the cap stuff--I just do not get the math (do not want to learn either). Thanks

#79 jarhead

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:18 AM

Here's where the difference comes from...

His salary this year is indeed $8.5 million. However, he received a $2 million roster bonus as well. The other million is the cap charge allocated annually from his original signing bonus.

Everything stays the same next year except his base goes up by $200,000, so the hit next year is $11.7 million.

One option would be to re-sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal with a signing bonus in the $10 million range and non-guaranteed salaries in the range of $5 million per year average, with year 1 lower and year 3 higher. He'd still be well paid and we would get some nice savings against the cap.

Should we then replace him in 2014, we could do it without a big cap charge.

A lot depends on what they want to do with the 1st round pick. As you correctly stated, you typically need to spend a high 1st to get a top notch LT in the draft.

You are good with working the cap.They ought to hire you.

Yep it comes down to can we restructure him? Do we want to for go drafting a LT for a DT with our 1st pick? Or bite the bullet and get that stud LT if he is still available? I think much will hinge on who is there with our number 1 pick.

#80 LiQuiD

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:41 AM

I've just gotta point out the humor in the placement of the two words "rings" and "Philly". Jesus christ, that's a good one!

#81 Munch4455

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

Don't know if anyone posted this, but here is an idea of how bad our O-Line has played this year, as a whole, Gross definately included.

http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

When running over the LT(Gross), we are the worst team in the NFL. We are 26th in pass protection, a lot of that would end up falling on Gross. Also 31st in overall run blocking for the entire line. There are a lot of problems with this line, and Gross is definately one of them. You can't just hold on to the past and loyalties without seeing the current situation, thats John Fox mentality and where has that gotten us?

#82 Kral

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:29 PM

No, these days he's serviceable at best.


It is painful to see the decline of one of the better players in recent memory.

#83 MadHatter

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

Our RT situation is marginal at best so our top need is a LT?


Yes it is. Gross is on the down side of his career and it would benefit him tremendously to slide him to the RT position and draft a stud LT.



#84 bigjohn

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:48 PM

If we can get him to not commit 33 false starts and holding penalties a game, then he might be useful.


Not sure where you got that stat. I looked it up and found Gross listed for 4 penalties this year (www.nflpenalties,com). Site seems pretty legit, but your sources may be better.

#85 bigjohn

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

I think he's definitely not the player he was a couple years ago, and if we can restructure to lessen the cap hit that'd be the best move IMHO. He's still a leader in the lockerroom and our chances of getting an immediate replacement in the draft are pretty slim.

#86 Gucci Mane

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:01 PM

Not sure where you got that stat. I looked it up and found Gross listed for 4 penalties this year (www.nflpenalties,com). Site seems pretty legit, but your sources may be better.


Uh yes, i have been watching panther games for quite sometime now.

#87 Thorrez

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:26 AM

Yes it is. Gross is on the down side of his career and it would benefit him tremendously to slide him to the RT position and draft a stud LT.


Is that really doable? I know he started on the right side but to me that is a natural switch. Guys comes from college with a lot of raw power but lacking of techniques. So the run block heavy right side is a fit. Once techniques are polished you are move to the left. Now as he is ageing so starting to lack in power but survives on techniques.

He just does not seems like a fit for the right side at this point.

#88 Bwood

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:45 AM

Don't know if anyone posted this, but here is an idea of how bad our O-Line has played this year, as a whole, Gross definately included.

http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

When running over the LT(Gross), we are the worst team in the NFL. We are 26th in pass protection, a lot of that would end up falling on Gross. Also 31st in overall run blocking for the entire line. There are a lot of problems with this line, and Gross is definately one of them. You can't just hold on to the past and loyalties without seeing the current situation, thats John Fox mentality and where has that gotten us?


" but I saw some youtube highlights of the Kansas City game and he looked good!!!1 "

- icege

#89 Urrymonster

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:39 AM

Don't know if anyone posted this, but here is an idea of how bad our O-Line has played this year, as a whole, Gross definately included.

http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

When running over the LT(Gross), we are the worst team in the NFL. We are 26th in pass protection, a lot of that would end up falling on Gross. Also 31st in overall run blocking for the entire line. There are a lot of problems with this line, and Gross is definately one of them. You can't just hold on to the past and loyalties without seeing the current situation, thats John Fox mentality and where has that gotten us?


That an interesting set of statistics, but part of me thinks that a lot is lost in their calculations rather than just looking at the raw data.

Running outside Gross between the TE has yielded and average of 3.1 yards per carry, running between Gross and Amini has yielded 4.6 yards per carry. If you think that is down to Amini, then you need to consider that between him and Kalil/Hangartner they have averaged just 2.0 yards per carry. Those two averages either side of Gross combined are by far the best on our OLine.

#90 bigjohn

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:22 AM

Uh yes, i have been watching panther games for quite sometime now.


Then I think your math is off a bit.


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