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Goodell considers changes to kickoff

panthers kickoff coin toss

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#31 rodeo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

well there's that...but even then, just provides even more reason to 1) improve your passing game and 2) score first and 3) have a defense that can cause turnovers just in case.

It's easy to just tell teams to get better to avoid it, but the current rules at least give teams a chance to be in the game.

With this rule, if you don't have a defense that can stop a 15 yard pass (absolutely WAY easier to make than an onside kick), then you can potentially go an entire season with only a handful of possessions.

What do you think that's gonna do for ticket sales for those teams? Teams like the Browns and Panthers still sell tickets because they at least are competitive and there's a chance of winning. But when it's week 11 and there's a 20:1 time of possession ratio against you all season because Nakamura can't stop these 4th downs, it's going to be a very different story.

#32 rodeo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:37 PM

Only in theory. The 4th and 15 would in reality only be used when the onsides kick would have been.

It would be used a lot more. A 15 yard pass has absolutely higher chances of completion than an onside kick.

4th and 25 would be closer to matching the odds.

#33 rayzor

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

Honestly there are injuries every game, but I can't even remember the last time there was a major one on a kick return. I have no idea why they put so much focus on changing them for the sake of injury when the majority of injuries come from simple things like your own team mate rolling over your leg.

agreed here.

since they took away the wedge injuries have come down on kickoffs. punt returns seem more dangerous to me but even then it's just to one person. but...supposedly there has been a lot of evidence over the years that there's a greater chance of injury during kickoff than pretty much any other time of the game, esp. more concussions.

#34 rayzor

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:39 PM

fwiw, this isn't the first time that eliminating kickoffs have been thought about.

In an interview with Giants.com, owner John Mara, a member of the NFL’s competition committee, says that he can envision a day in the future when NFL games are played without kickoffs. Mara was talking about the changes implemented before last season, where the league returned the kickoff line to the 35 yard line and limited the coverage team to lining up within 5 yards of the kickoff.

Last year, touchbacks rose from 16.4% to 43.4%, while the average yards per return rose to 23.8, the highest since kickoff stats were recorded in 1941. More importantly to the competition committee, as the rule was implemented to reduce reductions, it was viewed as a success.

“One thing we did determine is that by moving the kickoff to the 35 yard-line it reduced the number of returns, but reduced the number of concussions by 40 percent,” Mara said. “So I don’t think you’ll see that rule change. The kickoff is by far the most dangerous play that we have in our game. The hits are pretty violent and they come from all different directions. There are guys running full speed, that’s the problem. That’s why we put the rule in. It shortens the field a little bit and it cuts down the number of returns.”

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/04/14/giants-owner-john-mara-sees-a-day-when-kickoffs-will-no-longer-be-part-of-football/



#35 bigdog10

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:41 PM

If this happens, we had better find a new punter quick.

The huddle would melt down completely after one of Nortman's six yard shanks

#36 rodeo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

If you want to eliminate kick offs, eliminate them. Starting at the 20 every time would probably also have the side effect of higher scoring games, which is fun.

But don't make up some idiotic red rover game to replace them.

#37 Happy Panther

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:44 PM

It would be used a lot more. A 15 yard pass has absolutely higher chances of completion than an onside kick.

4th and 25 would be closer to matching the odds.


Teams face 4th and 15 in their own territory all the time and punt away. Usually punt away on 4th and 1 for that matter.

#38 rayzor

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:45 PM

it could be a worse idea...


#39 Mr. Scot

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:48 PM

I have a feeling if they ever did actually eliminate kickoffs, there would be a pretty significant fan revolt.

#40 rodeo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

Teams face 4th and 15 in their own territory all the time and punt away. Usually punt away on 4th and 1 for that matter.

Different context.

Do you think there would be an increase in onside kick attempts if they were suddenly somehow at a 50/50 chance instead of 1 in 50?

#41 rayzor

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

I have a feeling if they ever did actually eliminate kickoffs, there would be a pretty significant fan revolt.

i doubt it. i mean there might be a significant about of grumbling and complaining, but people would still watch and it would be just as interesting....and most of the grumbling would stop in a short amount of time.

kickoffs are becoming irrelevant.

i mean maybe have them at the start of each half (just for the tradition and the spectacle), but beyond that is the game any better because of it?

#42 rodeo

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:54 PM

i doubt it. i mean there might be a significant about of grumbling and complaining, but people would still watch and it would be just as interesting.

kickoffs are becoming irrelevant.

i mean maybe have them at the start of each half (just for the tradition and the spectacle), but beyond that is the game any better because of it?

You sound like someone who has Armanti Edwards returning for them. Would probably get different answers from fans watching Sproles or Leon Washington.

#43 grateflday

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

....... Right now if a player on the defending team deliberately draws and unsportsman like during the point after or on the dead ball it has no meaningful impact on the game.

For example: Defending team knows that the kicker will boom a touch back anyway so after the PAT they take out a lineman's knee. 15 yards assessed on the kickoff. Now the kicking team puts it in the stands as opposed to just through the end zone. Net result is the same for the receiving team and now a starting tackle is out for the game.....


This is something I definately have said to myself and others when it occurs. There is really no consequence of unsportsmanlike conduct after a TD and I am surprise more guys arent taking cheap shots. If anything the only thing it does it take the risk of a short field away then should the kicking team decide to do an oneside kick. Otherwise its gonna be a touch back anyway so now big deal to get a 15yard penalty. THEY SHOULD add it to the end of the return. If the returner scores a TD so be it, otherwise tag 15 yards to the end. If touchback you get it on the 35 and so forth.

#44 rayzor

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

Different context.

Do you think there would be an increase in onside kick attempts if they were suddenly somehow at a 50/50 chance instead of 1 in 50?

i think teams would opt to punt in those situations as often as they do now. 4th and 15 is not something that people tend to try and pass their way out of.

i'm sure chip kelly or someone of his ilk that prefers to take chances in those situations might try more punt fakes or passing for it, but for the most part it would be avoided much like it is today.

#45 rayzor

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:58 PM

You sound like someone who has Armanti Edwards returning for them. Would probably get different answers from fans watching Sproles or Leon Washington.

maybe, but they'd still have their chances to shine as a punt returner. kick return specialist has been less needed in recent years anyway, esp. with teams kicking off from the 35.



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