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(Poll) Should Rivera stay if we go 7-9

Should Rivera stay with 7-9 record   142 votes

  1. 1. Should Rivera stay with a 7-9 record?

    • Yes
      45
    • No
      97

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53 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

I want to see the sentiment on this one. Of course everyone know my answer is a resounding no.

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Posted · Report post

no, unless the new GM decides he's exactly who he wants to lead the team (and that the problems he faced were primarily due to horrific roster-building by hurney's mismanagement.)

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Posted · Report post

It was reported recently that many GM prospects think highly of Rivera and mentioned he needs "the right people around him"
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Posted · Report post

I voted "No"

Record is not the be all and end all.

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Posted · Report post

I was the first person on here to make the suggestion that he may not be gone, I stated then and I'll say it again if you look at how the Panthers have been loosing games and what our personnel issues are. based on the by the book play calling of situation it's easy too see the Panthers biggest issue this season has been the players not the coaching.

Rivera has to work with what he's given. I think if he goes 7-9 it should be good enough to get at least 1 more season

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Posted · Report post

not as simple as that.

it depends on how they win. what the team is doing. if they've bought in. if the coaching staff is making much better game time decisions. is his staff making better decisions. are the players making less mistakes.

too many things to factor into just the record.

if those things are all positive then he probably should get more consideration from the incoming GM.

not sure any of it matters, though. new GM will probably want to bring in his own HC. unless he and his staff and the team has really turned the corner and he pretty much nails it the rest of the season, his overall job here isn't going to be respectable enough to keep around.

i will say, though, that it's in the best interest of the team that they have some stability at HC. it's not good for the team to be going through another shake up so soon after the last one. rivera not working out isn't the best thing for the panthers.

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[quote name='Doc Holiday' timestamp='1355177574' post='2040931']
I was the first person on here to make the suggestion that he may not be gone, I stated then and I'll say it again if you look at how the Panthers have been loosing games and what our personnel issues are. based on the by the book play calling of situation[u][i][b] it's easy too see the Panthers biggest issue this season has been the players not the coaching[/b][/i][/u].

Rivera has to work with what he's given. I think if he goes 7-9 it should be good enough to get at least 1 more season
[/quote]not buying that at all.

too many questionable calls.

the problem has been the players AND the coaching staff, but even then it falls squarely on the coaching staff for not having the team/players prepared, for personnel decisions, and for trying to "protect" a short lead and give the other team too much room to make a comeback.

he has struggled with game management. i'm not sure how that isn't clear to anyone.

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[quote name='Zod' timestamp='1355177265' post='2040918']
It was reported recently that many GM prospects think highly of Rivera and mentioned he needs "the right people around him"
[/quote]
who would that be? the "right" people?

kind of like fox has the "right" people around him and all he has to do is show up, clap his hands, chew his bubble gum, and watch his team win?

sorry...just kind of funny to me.

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Posted · Report post

I look at the QB position. This year, I didn't like what Rivera was doing with Cam. As a result, people willingly forgot what Cam did in his rookie year, and said he couldn't quarterback in this league. Another thing I didn't like was Cam not necessarily being vocal about wanting to improve in dissecting defenses with his arm. I want a coach who will get that out of Cam, because that is what we need. Cam has all the tools to be able to dissect defenses. It would be a crying shame if that skill isn't developed. I see Rivera holding this team back.
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Posted · Report post

No.

That would prove back to back seasons that it takes him two many weeks to master his game plan.

He fails to prepare his team when it matters most.

Ron belongs at the University of California Berkely coaching smart young men his ways.

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Posted · Report post

i am torn in this scenario. the team has clearly not given up and playing 100% still right now. that has to count for something. he has to prove to the new GM though that he has learned from his mistakes and will be buying into what the new GM has to sell.

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Posted · Report post

Nope.

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[quote name='Matthias' timestamp='1355178165' post='2040945']
I look at the QB position. This year, I didn't like what Rivera was doing with Cam. As a result, people willingly forgot what Cam did in his rookie year, and said he couldn't quarterback in this league. Another thing I didn't like was Cam not necessarily being vocal about wanting to improve in dissecting defenses with his arm. I want a coach who will get that out of Cam, because that is what we need. Cam has all the tools to be able to dissect defenses. It would be a crying shame if that skill isn't developed. I see Rivera holding this team back.
[/quote]

I've been saying all season that Shula needs to go....We need a QB coach that beleives in Cam as an NFL quarterback and make him an NFL quarterback, , not a coach that will try and work around Cam's athletic ability. Don't get me wrong, Shula did good with Cam, but I think Cam's accuracy issues are a results of not having the basics down like footwork, mechanics and pocket presence...

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[quote name='rayzor' timestamp='1355177796' post='2040939']
not buying that at all.

too many questionable calls.

the problem has been the players AND the coaching staff, but even then it falls squarely on the coaching staff for not having the team/players prepared, for personnel decisions, and for trying to "protect" a short lead and give the other team too much room to make a comeback.

he has struggled with game management. i'm not sure how that isn't clear to anyone.
[/quote]
I'm really getting tired of you and CRA every time I post, I have to talk to you both again as if we haven't already had this conversation a dozen times already, which we have.

ok so one more time now.

What has been the biggest issue with the Panthers this season? Holding on to leads and Closing out games, I think we can all agree on that.

by the book what do you do if you are Up and what does the opposing offense do if they are Down in the second half of the game? You saw yesterday against Atlanta, If you are up you Rush the ball and if you are down, you pass the ball.

Basically you want to run the ball more to eat up the clock and they are going to pass more because time is their enemy and need to hold on to as much as possible.

What are the 2 biggest area's of weakness on the Panthers right now? The Offensive line and the Defensive backs. both unites are atrocious especially our DB's this season.

hence our personnel issues and problems closing out games.

have there been things that Rivera inc. could have done better? yep but are they the primary reason for the way things are this season? nope.

I would say our issues this season are 25% Coaches and 75% players.

As they say coaching can only go so far, players have to play.

If you want to truly understand this you have to know who our Coaches are, Rivera was the Best DC of the last 10 years in the NFL and contrary to popular opinion he didn't just wake up one morning as the Panthers HC and forget how to Coach Defense. with that also being said Chud while I found his play calling over the first 4 games overly gimmicky after that he went back to more of a pro based offense from last year and the offensive success started to return just minus the running game(O-line).
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[quote name='LA_Panther' timestamp='1355178818' post='2040962']
I've been saying all season that Shula needs to go....We need a QB coach that beleives in Cam as an NFL quarterback and make him an NFL quarterback, , not a coach that will try and work around Cam's athletic ability. Don't get me wrong, Shula did good with Cam, but I think Cam's accuracy issues are a results of not having the basics down like footwork, mechanics and pocket presence...
[/quote]

Our offensive scheme didn't encourage Cam to have the basics down I believe. For the longest, Cam was a one man show. He had to worry about passing and running. Of course we all know the read option is a nice play to mix into the offense, but it was our main offense for most of the season. Rivera thought he could be the Gene Chizick of the NFL for some reason. It wasn't even like Cam was the only good player on offense, but he was surrounded with talent.

I just want to be done with a coach that had that mindset. Rivera should have changed things up after the blowout by the Giants, but he only changed when he saw the outcry. Do not want a coach who waits until people want his head before he coaches.

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Posted · Report post

This poll doesn't have enough variables.

Ron should stay if we go 7-9 and he and the new GM rebuild the staff, including coordinators and assistants.

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[quote name='Doc Holiday' timestamp='1355179004' post='2040968']
I'm really getting tired of you and CRA every time I post, I have to talk to you both again as if we haven't already had this conversation a dozen times already, which we have.

ok so one more time now.

What has been the biggest issue with the Panthers this season? Holding on to leads and Closing out games, I think we can all agree on that.

by the book what do you do if you are Up and what does the opposing offense do if they are Down in the second half of the game? You saw yesterday against Atlanta, If you are up you Rush the ball and if you are down, you pass the ball.

Basically you want to run the ball more to eat up the clock and they are going to pass more because time is their enemy and need to hold on to as much as possible.

What are the 2 biggest area's of weakness on the Panthers right now? The Offensive line and the Defensive backs. both unites are atrocious especially our DB's this season.

hence our personnel issues and problems closing out games.

have there been things that Rivera inc. could have done better? yep but are they the primary reason for the way things are this season? nope.

I would say our issues this season are 25% Coaches and 75% players.

As they say coaching can only go so far, players have to play.

If you want to truly understand this you have to know who our Coaches are, Rivera was the Best DC of the last 10 years in the NFL and contrary to popular opinion he didn't just wake up one morning as the Panthers HC and forget how to Coach Defense. with that also being said Chud while I found his play calling over the first 4 games overly gimmicky after that he went back to more of a pro based offense from last year and the offensive success started to return just minus the running game(O-line).
[/quote]

like i said...i don't buy it. that's my opinion.

and honestly i don't remember having this conversation with you very much at all, but whatever.

"by the book" meh...the book is being re-written, but whatever.

you said you're getting tired of discussing this with me so i won't bother you any further lololol.
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[quote name='rodeo' timestamp='1355179341' post='2040977']
This poll doesn't have enough variables.

Ron should stay if we go 7-9 and he and the new GM rebuild the staff, including coordinators and assistants.
[/quote]

I see the coordinators as an extension of Rivera. It would be one thing if Chud tried out his read option offense plan for a couple of games, and Rivera said enough with that. No, Rivera allowed things to continue, so he is just as guilty of stupid play calling as they are.

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Posted · Report post

To me it matters how the players feel. If they feel confident in our coaches they should get another year. By players I mean Cam, Luke, CJ and Hardy only.

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Posted · Report post

I think he, and the vast majority of guys, deserve three years to do their thing.

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[quote name='Doc Holiday' timestamp='1355179004' post='2040968']
I'm really getting tired of you and CRA every time I post, I have to talk to you both again as if we haven't already had this conversation a dozen times already, which we have.

ok so one more time now.

What has been the biggest issue with the Panthers this season? Holding on to leads and Closing out games, I think we can all agree on that.

by the book what do you do if you are Up and what does the opposing offense do if they are Down in the second half of the game? You saw yesterday against Atlanta, If you are up you Rush the ball and if you are down, you pass the ball.

Basically you want to run the ball more to eat up the clock and they are going to pass more because time is their enemy and need to hold on to as much as possible.

What are the 2 biggest area's of weakness on the Panthers right now? The Offensive line and the Defensive backs. both unites are atrocious especially our DB's this season.

hence our personnel issues and problems closing out games.

have there been things that Rivera inc. could have done better? yep but are they the primary reason for the way things are this season? nope.

I would say our issues this season are 25% Coaches and 75% players.

As they say coaching can only go so far, players have to play.

If you want to truly understand this you have to know who our Coaches are, Rivera was the Best DC of the last 10 years in the NFL and contrary to popular opinion he didn't just wake up one morning as the Panthers HC and forget how to Coach Defense. with that also being said Chud while I found his play calling over the first 4 games overly gimmicky after that he went back to more of a pro based offense from last year and the offensive success started to return just minus the running game(O-line).
[/quote]

With this same team, Harbaugh would have had us fighting for homefield advantage.

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[quote name='Swaggasaurus' timestamp='1355179552' post='2040981']
To me it matters how the players feel. If they feel confident in our coaches they should get another year. By players I mean Cam, Luke, CJ and Hardy only.
[/quote]
the problem i have is that the players might be too close to the situation to think objectively.

they may like rivera. they may like chud and mcD. they liked hurney. doesn't mean that the job doesn't need to change hands.

supposedly many of them liked fox, but he wasn't pulling the best out of them.

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Posted · Report post

Voted no, but that could change.

My worry isn't Rivera per se, it's the fact that I literally can't name any other coach out there that I would really believe in besides David Shaw, and if that's the case we could let go of Rivera after only two years only to replace him with someone even less competent. I think those that want Rivera gone, including myself, sometime forget that it's not a guarentee that the next coach is any better.

Cowher? meh. Zimmer? meh. Clements? Meh. Horton? Though i like still, meh. Kelly? high risk/high reward. Gruden? meh. etc...

I get both sides of the coin. But how can you fire a coach after two years? two years?

I know it sounds like I want to keep him, I don't, it's just I don't think it's a no brainer decision like some.
I know I'm stretching with this comparision, but i get the feeling that Rivera is our Doug Collins and we have yet to find our Phil Jackson and that's the reason i voted no...for now.

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[quote name='Matthias' timestamp='1355179815' post='2040986']
With this same team, Harbaugh would have had us fighting for homefield advantage.
[/quote]this i completely believe.
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