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There are 15 winning head coaches with jobs in this league (tenured)


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#31 Zod

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:55 AM

Wrong as usual. About me and the draft. How many rounds were there in 1960? 20 rounds..... Number of guys chosen in the draft 240. So there were 12 teams. It went to 17 rounds in 1967 because the addition of more teams even the fewer rounds resulted in 445 picks.

In 1975 the draft contracted to 12 rounds and the number of players constricted to 335. In 1993 it went to 8 rounds and the players taken constricted to 224. In 1994 it went to 7 rounds and has stayed there since.

As for why they went to 7 rounds, think salary cap which began with the 1993 Collective Bargaining agreement. UDFAs were added to fill rosters and were part of the concessions for free agency.



Technology has also improved greatly. It took 100 times longer to collect film reel and scout players. Now coaches can punch in a players name and see every down he played in a row. Drafting used to be much more of a hit or miss.

#32 Marguide

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:24 AM

There is no hard and fast rule to follow as to how long to give coaches. It is more than just the team's record. You have to look at how the players are performing and responding to the coach. You have to look at how they manage games. You have to look at the staff he's put together and how they are performing. And of course you have to look at the level of talent they have to work with.

I don't want Rivera gone just because we continue with our losing ways. I want him gone because I don't think he is a good coach.

#33 SCP

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:40 AM

I don't know man, some of the time outs Ron calls just blow my mind. It seems like every time we call a defensive time out to make an adjustment or correction, the opposition achieves their goal of a first down, TD, or 2 point conversion. Our 4 minute play calling is pure crap.

#34 rayzor

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:58 AM

i think he can call good defense...when given direction. i just don't like the conservative slant to his playcalling and game management at the end of the game. i think it was better this past week, but he coaches not to lose. he chooses the more traditional route of playing it safe and trusting your defense to hold the other team down, but in an era that makes it so easy to take huge chunks of yardage through the air (like we saw in that first game against the falcons) it' s just too risky. the safest place for the ball to be is in your team's hands. a punt is not a good play at the end of a close game.

#35 Snake

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:51 AM

The seesaw effect we saw this year is the most troubling to me. Last year our offence was good and this year our defense is. This is what we saw from Fox in his latter years and it was not a good thing.

#36 panthers55

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:17 PM

i meant he could eventually have a winning season like kubiak, but again, what are the chances and could we reach success earlier with someone else?

i


Given that few coaches win in year 1 no matter where they go, you would be looking at year 2 of a new coach which is the same as giving Rivera 4 years to win. I think Rivera knows how to win, the young guys needed to learn how to win and close and if we finish strong, I think they will have learned that lesson.

#37 panthers55

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:29 PM

Technology has also improved greatly. It took 100 times longer to collect film reel and scout players. Now coaches can punch in a players name and see every down he played in a row. Drafting used to be much more of a hit or miss.


Very true. Of course most folks don't know that it wasn't until the AFL came into existence that much work was made to even evaluate players and develop a scouting team for the draft. Suddenly there was competition and folks employed some technology. Then in 1977 or so, we started the combine and folks got more systematic. The big push has been in the last 10 years as free agent money made it so important to get drafted high. At least the rookie salary cap has given that whole process some sanity.

#38 LA_Panther

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

Can the Rivera defenders make a legitimate case for keeping him in regards to how he has handled this team, record aside for a sec?

As in, besides having a bad record in his first two years as a head coach, in what way is his head coaching style similar to Belicheat and Jimmy Johnson?


Rivera inherited a team that was depleted in so many key areas. Cam's success last year gave most of us amnesia and we started to think we were contenders. But as evidenced this year, we are far from being contenders.

So, why should we give Rivera another year? He is slowly but surely upgrading personnel the hard way, and in my opinion, the right way. He is doing that by starting young guys and giving them some reps. There may be growing pains, but when these young players (norman, thomas, Keek, Campbell, Alexander etc...) figure it out together we'll have a dominating D. I just wish he did the same with offense i.e. give more reps to Gettis, Adams etc...and end this Armanti experiment once and for all.

If ownerships shows patience with him, I think this team will have a great D. We still need to work on playcalling on offense.

#39 Frash Brastard

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:13 PM

Given that few coaches win in year 1 no matter where they go, you would be looking at year 2 of a new coach which is the same as giving Rivera 4 years to win. I think Rivera knows how to win, the young guys needed to learn how to win and close and if we finish strong, I think they will have learned that lesson.


Rivera doesn't know how to win

He hasn't proven it yet. He's lost nearly every single close game he's coached. And last I checked, we weren't that much of a young team going into this season. Pretty average in age, so it's a pretty lame excuse.

Mike Smith
Jim Harbaugh
John Harbaugh
Rex Ryan
Norv Turner (SD)
Mike Tomlin
Sean Payton

This is a short list of first-year head coaches that won instantly. Not so rare since 2006

By the way, Sunday's win would've been impressive from a schematic standpoint if we outfoxed the offensive tempo adjustments Atlanta made and held them to say, 3-10 points instead of letting them score 20 points in about the final 20 minutes. If we need to jump ahead 23-0 in order to have a good chance of winning that means you aren't really doing a good job in the 4th quarter.

#40 SZ James (banned)

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:21 PM

God this board will be unreadable if we end the season L, L, W.

#41 panthers55

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:17 AM

Rivera doesn't know how to win

He hasn't proven it yet. He's lost nearly every single close game he's coached. And last I checked, we weren't that much of a young team going into this season. Pretty average in age, so it's a pretty lame excuse.

Mike Smith
Jim Harbaugh
John Harbaugh
Rex Ryan
Norv Turner (SD)
Mike Tomlin
Sean Payton

This is a short list of first-year head coaches that won instantly. Not so rare since 2006

By the way, Sunday's win would've been impressive from a schematic standpoint if we outfoxed the offensive tempo adjustments Atlanta made and held them to say, 3-10 points instead of letting them score 20 points in about the final 20 minutes. If we need to jump ahead 23-0 in order to have a good chance of winning that means you aren't really doing a good job in the 4th quarter.


And I can make a longer list of guys who didn't win instantly since 2006. But that really isn't the issue. Could we find someone else who would be better? We might be able to but it is not guaranteed either. We could also find someone who takes 2 years or more to prove to be a bust.

The issue is that some of you believe that Rivera can't be a good coach, isn't learning from his mistakes and will keep doing the same dumb things. So far I think he is learning but am waiting until the end of the year to see what continued adjustments he makes and whether he can get them on a roll before I pass judgement.

#42 Peppers90 NC

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

only support i can come up with for RR to stay, is that consistency in the same system is generally good for young QB's like our, unless the system is bad, which it kinda is.

#43 rayzor

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:47 PM

And I can make a longer list of guys who didn't win instantly since 2006. But that really isn't the issue. Could we find someone else who would be better? We might be able to but it is not guaranteed either. We could also find someone who takes 2 years or more to prove to be a bust.

The issue is that some of you believe that Rivera can't be a good coach, isn't learning from his mistakes and will keep doing the same dumb things. So far I think he is learning but am waiting until the end of the year to see what continued adjustments he makes and whether he can get them on a roll before I pass judgement.

there is no guarantee that the next coach will be any better, but there's also no guarantee that rivera will learn everything he needs to to become a consistent winner.

i just haven't seen a whole lot of evidence that he's "getting it", at least getting it enough to make a significant difference in the W/L columns. i don't know if he's good enough to get this team and it's players over the hump enough to make us real and consistent playoff contenders.

if he continues to coach like he did this past week, then yes i think he's gotten it. if he goes back to some more of the old "protect the lead" giving the ball away to the other team at the end of the game hoping that your defense will contain and then watching that offense flat out abuse our defense with big deep passes going down the field....i'm pretty sure i don't want to see any more of that.

#44 j2sgam

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

If Chico has learned to continue playing until the end, then maybe, yea, keep him around with a new OC. If he goes back into the BS about 'not losing' the game, which it always has, then gtfo... As long as he is learning from his mistakes, which I think he is, I think he should get another shot. I know what the man did with his defenses over the years, and I was really excited about the hire. Not so much now that we're 2yrs into his tenure...

I agree with teh 3-year rule, but we all know we havent had a winning season in 4. Sooooooo.........

I am on the fence, I want RR to succeed here, but it does not look like its going to happen, sometimes....

#45 Frash Brastard

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:27 PM

And I can make a longer list of guys who didn't win instantly since 2006. But that really isn't the issue. Could we find someone else who would be better? We might be able to but it is not guaranteed either. We could also find someone who takes 2 years or more to prove to be a bust.

The issue is that some of you believe that Rivera can't be a good coach, isn't learning from his mistakes and will keep doing the same dumb things. So far I think he is learning but am waiting until the end of the year to see what continued adjustments he makes and whether he can get them on a roll before I pass judgement.


p55., just about every position in this league, whether at the player's level or executive level has a low rate of success when looking at the winning metric. We could hypothetically stick with Rivera for the next 4 years with the knowledge that there's a reasonable chance he'll at least string enough wins together to reach the playoffs once. Then again, we could've stuck with Matt Moore and not drafted Cam Newton. We could've kept Hurney instead of calling for the initiative to search for a successful GM prospect with a fresh perspective.


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