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Panthers/Chargers have mirror image frustrations


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#16 4Corners

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:24 PM

We hired a staff that doesn't know how to win big games...what did JR expect? It was obvious about halfway through last year that Rivera didn't know what he was doing.


another good point. would have to agree with this as well.

McDermott has an outstanding pedigree, but none of these guys have ever been apart of a coaching staff that has accomplished much.

#17 beastson

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:25 PM

We about to get a new GM

Rivera is not staying, neither is the rest of the coaches

#18 4Corners

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:32 PM

Yeah, you could make a valid point that the only reason Rivera HASN'T been fired is because we don't have our GM yet.

Hopefully, and I don't know if this is going to happen or not, Mr. Richardson will keep his hands off the team and let his GM do what he thinks is best to build a winning club. If not, we could bring Vince Lombardi here to be a GM and it won't matter.

Do any of y'all think that The Big Cat has made his mind up on Rivera already? They were talking on WFNZ that JR basically told Rivera a couple weeks ago that his fate next season depends on how the finish this season.

This worries me. What if we win out? or win 3 of the last 4? Is that good enough for JR? what if the GM wants to bring in a new guy?

This is certainly going to be a very, very interesting couple of days after our season ends in a couple weeks. Maybe the most interesting/busiest the Panthers have ever had.

#19 Who Said What?

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:58 AM

Yeah, you could make a valid point that the only reason Rivera HASN'T been fired is because we don't have our GM yet.

Hopefully, and I don't know if this is going to happen or not, Mr. Richardson will keep his hands off the team and let his GM do what he thinks is best to build a winning club. If not, we could bring Vince Lombardi here to be a GM and it won't matter.

Do any of y'all think that The Big Cat has made his mind up on Rivera already? They were talking on WFNZ that JR basically told Rivera a couple weeks ago that his fate next season depends on how the finish this season.

This worries me. What if we win out? or win 3 of the last 4? Is that good enough for JR? what if the GM wants to bring in a new guy?

This is certainly going to be a very, very interesting couple of days after our season ends in a couple weeks. Maybe the most interesting/busiest the Panthers have ever had.


Also, who would we make interim? I don't believe JR has confidence in any of these staff members. Someone said that JR didn't like the Rivera choice anyway. I think he intends to be a little more hands on this time. Rivera is done unless we win our last games by forty points or even then who knows.

#20 Snake

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:39 AM

Yeah, you could make a valid point that the only reason Rivera HASN'T been fired is because we don't have our GM yet.

Hopefully, and I don't know if this is going to happen or not, Mr. Richardson will keep his hands off the team and let his GM do what he thinks is best to build a winning club. If not, we could bring Vince Lombardi here to be a GM and it won't matter.

Do any of y'all think that The Big Cat has made his mind up on Rivera already? They were talking on WFNZ that JR basically told Rivera a couple weeks ago that his fate next season depends on how the finish this season.

This worries me. What if we win out? or win 3 of the last 4? Is that good enough for JR? what if the GM wants to bring in a new guy?

This is certainly going to be a very, very interesting couple of days after our season ends in a couple weeks. Maybe the most interesting/busiest the Panthers have ever had.


If its one thing I have learned about this team its don't underestimate there losing potential. They have got there asses handed to them by some pretty shitty teams this year.

#21 Lumps

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:09 AM

there

Where?

#22 Who Said What?

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:01 AM

I read the article and didn't get any of that. Maybe I didn't have a preconceived notion before I read it. I just read the usual pregame hype coaches say about every team before they play a game against a team they previously coached for.


I read alot of pregame articles and most of the time one coach doesn't say that he talks with the other coach several times a week. I posted that I hadn't made the connection before I read the article. It is clear Rivera patterns some of what he does after Norv and in turn we look alot like the Chargers. I do not want that "just enough not to get fired" coaching to ever take hold in Carolina.

#23 panthers55

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:29 PM

I read alot of pregame articles and most of the time one coach doesn't say that he talks with the other coach several times a week. I posted that I hadn't made the connection before I read the article. It is clear Rivera patterns some of what he does after Norv and in turn we look alot like the Chargers. I do not want that "just enough not to get fired" coaching to ever take hold in Carolina.


I thought everyone who knows even a modicum about Rivera and his pedigree knew he came from San Diego and was close to Turner. Rivera hired his son as offensive control coordinator. You really just figured out that they were close???

Do we pattern some of the offense after the Chargers?? Duh......

For the most part there have really been only 3 major offensive systems out there, the WCO, the Coryell vertical passing game, and the Erhardt/Perkins System which incorporates everything else. Some argue that the whole spread option system is distinct but many see it as an EPS variation.

For that matter, this isn't the only time we ran the Coryell System. We ran in with Fox when Henning was the coordinator from 2002 to 2005.

By the way the San Diego offense has been pretty prolific most years. It is down this year but in 2011 it was 6th in the league, in 2010 it was 1st in the league, in 2009 it was 10th. So we could do a lot worse. Honestly the whole Coryell System is custom built for us. I would hate to scrap it for a WCO for example.

#24 panthers55

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

Yeah, you could make a valid point that the only reason Rivera HASN'T been fired is because we don't have our GM yet.

Hopefully, and I don't know if this is going to happen or not, Mr. Richardson will keep his hands off the team and let his GM do what he thinks is best to build a winning club. If not, we could bring Vince Lombardi here to be a GM and it won't matter.

Do any of y'all think that The Big Cat has made his mind up on Rivera already? They were talking on WFNZ that JR basically told Rivera a couple weeks ago that his fate next season depends on how the finish this season.

This worries me. What if we win out? or win 3 of the last 4? Is that good enough for JR? what if the GM wants to bring in a new guy?

This is certainly going to be a very, very interesting couple of days after our season ends in a couple weeks. Maybe the most interesting/busiest the Panthers have ever had.


Actually only an idiot would fire a coach mid-season without having a replacement in hand. The talk today is that Baltimore is foolish for canning Cameron as OC with only 3 games left given the difficulty it will take to replace him with Caudwell and put together a gameplan in 3 days while they are still in the playoff hunt.

And if the team plays hard for Rivera the rest of the way and we win out, he deserves another year. Seems to me that if he can fashion a winning formula the last 3 games then he has learned a lot as had Chud. After all it isn't about what kind of coach he was last year or even the beginning of this year but how he is going forward. People and coaches can learn and improve from their mistakes. Most times we learn more from what goes wrong than we do from what goes right.

#25 4Corners

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:27 PM

Actually only an idiot would fire a coach mid-season without having a replacement in hand. The talk today is that Baltimore is foolish for canning Cameron as OC with only 3 games left given the difficulty it will take to replace him with Caudwell and put together a gameplan in 3 days while they are still in the playoff hunt.

And if the team plays hard for Rivera the rest of the way and we win out, he deserves another year. Seems to me that if he can fashion a winning formula the last 3 games then he has learned a lot as had Chud. After all it isn't about what kind of coach he was last year or even the beginning of this year but how he is going forward. People and coaches can learn and improve from their mistakes. Most times we learn more from what goes wrong than we do from what goes right.



IMHO, Mike Shula would be the intern HC. If not him then Chud.

Panthers have done many idiotic things as a pro franchise but I truly believe that the reason RR hasn't been fired yet is because we have to get a GM first.

#26 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:31 PM

And if the team plays hard for Rivera the rest of the way and we win out, he deserves another year. Seems to me that if he can fashion a winning formula the last 3 games then he has learned a lot as had Chud. After all it isn't about what kind of coach he was last year or even the beginning of this year but how he is going forward. People and coaches can learn and improve from their mistakes. Most times we learn more from what goes wrong than we do from what goes right.

I don't like that stance.

Makes a large assumption that b/c players are still playing hard they are doing it for the coach. Our core players can have little to no faith overall in the ability of our coaches YET still play hard.

#27 SmokeScreen

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

all i know is i don't wanna put up with ron anymore

#28 panthers55

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

IMHO, Mike Shula would be the intern HC. If not him then Chud.

Panthers have done many idiotic things as a pro franchise but I truly believe that the reason RR hasn't been fired yet is because we have to get a GM first.


Rivera hasn't been fired yet because the season isn't over yet. Honestly, how many coaches get fired mid-season?? I bet you can count the number in the past 10 years on 1 hand. No GM who was coming in would fire a coach before the season was over. You don't fire someone until you have someone better. Unless you are hiring a college coach, teams won't let you talk to other coaches until after their season is over.

#29 panthers55

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

I don't like that stance.

Makes a large assumption that b/c players are still playing hard they are doing it for the coach. Our core players can have little to no faith overall in the ability of our coaches YET still play hard.

Not usually true. What about Morris in Tampa? Were they playing for him? No. Were they playing hard?? No. Yet they still had jobs and knew he was going to be fired.

Should I go down the list of teams that have quit on their coach or stop playing for them?? It is a much longer list than those teams that played hard with no faith in their coach. Particularly on a team like the Panthers with young players in key roles and questionable leadership. If the players didn't believe in the coaches, this team would have folded weeks ago. Players questioning not going for it a few weeks ago is a far cry from not believing in the coaching staff at all.

#30 Who Said What?

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:07 PM

I thought everyone who knows even a modicum about Rivera and his pedigree knew he came from San Diego and was close to Turner. Rivera hired his son as offensive control coordinator. You really just figured out that they were close???

Do we pattern some of the offense after the Chargers?? Duh......

For the most part there have really been only 3 major offensive systems out there, the WCO, the Coryell vertical passing game, and the Erhardt/Perkins System which incorporates everything else. Some argue that the whole spread option system is distinct but many see it as an EPS variation.

For that matter, this isn't the only time we ran the Coryell System. We ran in with Fox when Henning was the coordinator from 2002 to 2005.

By the way the San Diego offense has been pretty prolific most years. It is down this year but in 2011 it was 6th in the league, in 2010 it was 1st in the league, in 2009 it was 10th. So we could do a lot worse. Honestly the whole Coryell System is custom built for us. I would hate to scrap it for a WCO for example.


I am with you on that sir. I do not think that the WCO would suit Cam at all.


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