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rodeo

Guns vs. Knives

49 posts in this topic

I don't frequent the tinderbox often, but it's really hard to see weapons as the core issue here. To me there is something rooted much deeper the way our society works in 2012 than the way it once did.

What it is? Well you could speculate on a ton of different things, but weapons have been around in the US for a while, and this problem is getting worse.

I think trying control weaponry of any kind is just the easy way out to a darker deep seeded issue that is manifesting itself in many more ways than just these mass killings. Bullying, for instance, among many other things, can be found to be birthed out of a pretty similar attitude to the killers in these tragedies have, and that's just one example.

Exactly - but the politicians in Washington ( of all stripes ) dont want to ponder too long for real answers to problems. They want to look good on a 20 second video so it will help them to be relected in 2 or 4 years.

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If the school collapsed and killed 30 kids, we'd look into everything involving school construction, have 200 congressional inquiries on the building of schools, etc

30 kids get shot by a maniac? What a tragedy. Guess that's just America, nowadays. Aw shucks.

Want to start to reduce firearms in America? Require licensing and registration on them every year, just like a car. Heck, require liability insurance on those bad boys and watch the magic of the free market at work.

This.

For all the "get the government out of my life" and "I hate the ACA" people this should be a no brainer. Let the free market address the billions in dollars in death and destruction caused every year by firearms.

For instance the Oregon Mall Killer and the Sandy Hook Killer both stole/took their weapons from legal owners. Had the legal owners been required to purchase insurance to cover the cost of any death or destruction caused by their weapons (instead of the evil local, state or federal government) you can bet the private insurance industry would require gun locks, gun safes, and eventually smart guns that would only work for their authorized owners.

As insurance costs associated with unsecured or unaccounted for guns continued to grow, so would the public mandate for accountability.

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My problem is, look at the country where the stabbing happened.

I'm not familiar with Chinese gun laws but from knowing how they handle their business in other facets, I imagine they're very strict and the general public doesn't have much if any access to them.

I think of things like Tiannamen Square, their numerous human rights issues, and don't they also control how many children you are allowed to have? Things like that...

There is something to giving up the right to bear arms and then losing other rights as a result. I'm convinced of it. So, it's a hard line to walk. I don't know the solution. I'm convinced if we ban guns that the gov't will impose in various other ways and strip more rights as a result. But, we can't keep allowing guns to be so easily accessible to mentally ill maniacs either.

And the assault rifle argument doesn't even apply here... there is no need for assault weapons among our citizens, but today's incident didn't even involve any... So what do we do? I don't know.

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Just make guns harder to get for the nutjobs. In banking if you deposit a certain amount on in a certain way you are flagged and the bank can refuse your business.

Do that here. You buy x amount or a certain weapon you get flagged and now have to complete a medical mental release form. You don't pass you don't get the gun.

Also. Shouldn't buying body armor be for like cops? Just cops?

If you are a felon there are certain jobs you can't get.

Something flat out has to be done and its not as expensive as we would be lead to believe.

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My problem with these discussions is that we're all wanting something that can never be achieved.

I saw an LOL poster earlier that basically said "Make guns illegal... Works perfectly with Heroine and Meth"

Sure, it is an extremely slanted and light view on the subject, but there is a basic truth to it.

You can legislate the piss out of something all you want, but if someone wants one, they are going to get it.

Knives are one thing. But look at terrorism.

Can't sneak a gun onto a plane? Want to kill a lot of people? Hijack that bitch with a box cutter.

Want to make a statement about how the outside world oppresses you? Build a bomb jacket and head to your local market or public gathering place.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Mentally disturbed people are going to harm others if they want to. No matter the motivation.

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I don't get why drugs are always brought up for comparison. I mean like it or not making them illegal makes drug use less frequent and that is a fact.

No legislation will prevent 100% of cases from happening. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to limit them as much as possible.

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Yep. You use all the tools at your disposal to limit the bad.

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Personally, I think current gun laws make them less frequent too.

I guess my point is... Where does it end? When does responsibility fall upon the individual?

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I actually agree with Delhommey's points about yearly registrations and such. I'm not really on board with the liability idea, though. I just see that as just another doorway for revenue to flow from responsible people to cover for the actions of irresponsible people... like car insurance... Yes, I agree accidents happen, but there will never be a way to insure everyone with a firearm is paying liability on it.

Those were about the only solutions I've ever seen offered other than "we need to do something!"

Another thing that could possibly be done, but it would have other ramifications (economic mainly) would be to tax/fine the poo out of special interest groups, lobbyists, and firearm manufacturers. I've thought about that, but I think that would actually increase the illegal gun trade, especially in poorer areas (much like the drug trade).

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I really think America is beyond fuged right now. Defeatest attitude, whatever. I've given up on advocating any specific changes because it's too damn late. It's ingrained in the culture. The gun lobby is like the biggest in DC atm. The fuging rigidity of the constitutionalists in this country will never allow any action on a federal level(the only way to really to do it imo). Congress is already deadlocked. Once it's not, no one will care because this will be out of everyone's subcon.

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I actually agree with Delhommey's points about yearly registrations and such. I'm not really on board with the liability idea, though. I just see that as just another doorway for revenue to flow from responsible people to cover for the actions of irresponsible people... like car insurance... Yes, I agree accidents happen, but there will never be a way to insure everyone with a firearm is paying liability on it.

Those were about the only solutions I've ever seen offered other than "we need to do something!"

Another thing that could possibly be done, but it would have other ramifications (economic mainly) would be to tax/fine the poo out of special interest groups, lobbyists, and firearm manufacturers. I've thought about that, but I think that would actually increase the illegal gun trade, especially in poorer areas (much like the drug trade).

For those individuals that are financially well off, they can arrange for a surety bond, everyone else can pay for insurance to cover liability.

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We rush for something to blame, as long as it isn't the batshit crazy person who committed the crime.

It's just a shame the shooter died, because putting him in a comfy cell for 60 years would be the right thing to do.

I mean the Death Penalty, *shivers*.

America goes to extremes every day to guard aginst isolated incidents.

One asshole tries to detonate a shoe bomb at 30,000 feet and we all now have to take our shoes off to get on a plane.

Of course you cant scan everyone who walks onto a school campus, a mall or movie theater.

If it wasn't a gun it would have been a bomb or something else. You can imgine the results of a machete attack on 7 year olds.

I think assault type weapons should be outlawed and removed from society as best as is possible. There's just no good reason why anyone needs one when you consider the alternatives.

Of course I think the same logic applies to Pit Bulls.

And you'll never get the average home defense or sport hand gun or rifle out of circulation, that water is so far down the river it ain't ever coming back.

How could the fugger that did this be helped or diverted before it came to this?

That would be a lot better focus to prevent these tragedies going forward.

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