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10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus


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#31 Matthias

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:06 PM

Wrong about Genesis...but when they ate from the tree they were aware, conscious...It was called the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.

Evil existed so why is God the one decieving his creations? So if Satan's mango(the fruit) IS knowledge Capital G forbid Adam and Eve(not Steve) to eat it...this is the the seed of Faith. To believe without evidence.. IMO, A major lesson to not steer to far from an authority figure to prevent questioning, seeking knowledge bc it will be "EVIL"

In the King James Version the Apocrypha books were ommited: there are a lot of stories based in folklore which help contridict other parts.. So yes they did omit it. Why? Why would a King want to omit something and edit a Divine book? The dead sea scrolls prove the Hebrew manuscripts of a few of these books. I know .. Satan put them there.

1 Esdras
2 Esdras
Tobit
Judith
Additions to Esther
Wisdom of Solomon
Ecclesiasticus
Baruch
Letter of Jeremiah
Prayer of Azariah
Susanna
Bel and the Dragon
Prayer of Manasseh
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees


When it comes to the books, there are different reasons why some are accepted and others weren't. Some books were simply lost over time. (As I mention both the OT and NT mention texts that are not in the KJV Bible) Take Tobit for example. That book was never considered canonical by the Jewish people. Basically the first five books of the Bible are the most important in terms of OT times. Then you had the writings of the prophets and so forth. I'm very sure there are more writings that were inspired by God, but a lot of them were lost over time. That doesn't make any of the books we have right now, less inspired.

We know people wrote fake Gospels, people probably wrote fake books around the time of the OT as well. What we have now is good, the other books that are not in the KJV, will be good to study. Again some of them are inspired, others are fakes.

You don't want me to get started on explaining Genesis. You wouldn't understand it, so I'll leave that alone for now.

If you've researched this so much more than me then surely you can provide an account of Jesus written by someone who lived at the same time as him.

The person cited in the thing you quoted, Josephus, was born after Jesus died. He wasn't an eye witness.


There are plenty of eye witness accounts within the NT. Peter's letters, James' letter, and John's letters. Besides, again an eye witness account to you is useless. What difference does it make whether or not there are eye witness accounts? Would you believe them? I doubt it.

#32 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:09 PM

Interesting timeline of Jesus and historical timelines.




#33 pstall

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

with the exception of Jesus in this list, which other person are some of you guys TRULY following? otherwise you are just throwing stones for no productive reason.

tell me about your walk with Hindu, or Buddha or any of the others. how have they transformed your life and what is about them that makes it attractive to me or anybody else here?

i got time. go ahead.

#34 rodeo

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:43 PM

There are plenty of eye witness accounts within the NT. Peter's letters, James' letter, and John's letters. Besides, again an eye witness account to you is useless. What difference does it make whether or not there are eye witness accounts? Would you believe them? I doubt it.

Holy crap you suck at this. Peter's letters are a first hand account of Jesus, even though they were letters to Asia Minor about Christian persocution there when Christianity wasn't even established there for decades or centuries until after Jesus and Peter were long dead.

if you can't even prove that the dude even freaking existed just what exactly do you base your whole belief system on? this is basic, entry level stuff and you can't provide even a shred.

#35 rodeo

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:53 PM

Just pretend I'm a potential convert. I'm interested in learning more about your religion and I ask you about this historical figure and the first hand accounts of these amazing things he did.

"Um, well there is evidence that Pilate existed" doesn't cut it, but I'm still really interested, so I'm open to some solid factual foundation to build my new belief system on. If I'm going to walk with Jesus, I need to know I'm not just crazy and it's not just a scam; so show me the hard evidence that this guy was real.

I think you can do it if you're willing to put the work in.

#36 Matthias

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

Holy crap you suck at this. Peter's letters are a first hand account of Jesus, even though they were letters to Asia Minor about Christian persocution there when Christianity wasn't even established there for decades or centuries until after Jesus and Peter were long dead.

if you can't even prove that the dude even freaking existed just what exactly do you base your whole belief system on? this is basic, entry level stuff and you can't provide even a shred.


Christianity spread throughout the region. We know Paul traveled through those areas multiple times. So it doesn't matter whether or not Christianity was established in those areas, it was definitely there in Asia Minor. These guys said they heard Jesus preach, and saw the things He did. I have good reason to believe what they saw truly happened. I look at the world today, and can see many of the things they talk about within ourselves. I also see the history of Israel, and how they were able to come back into the land after being exiled for so long. People might say the jewish people came back into the land because religious western countries helped them, well that is saying something if you ask me. That God's message spread so much, that it was actually His message that brought them back into the land of Israel. God used His word to bring about His promises.

Ultimately, everything lines up, and more evidence is being uncovered.

#37 rodeo

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:02 PM

Christianity spread throughout the region. We know Paul traveled through those areas multiple times. So it doesn't matter whether or not Christianity was established in those areas, it was definitely there in Asia Minor.


I know Christianity spread throughout the region. At around 81 CE, when Peter's Letters were written about the persecution going on at the time.


These guys said they heard Jesus preach, and saw the things He did. I have good reason to believe what they saw truly happened. I look at the world today, and can see many of the things they talk about within ourselves. I also see the history of Israel, and how they were able to come back into the land after being exiled for so long. People might say the jewish people came back into the land because religious western countries helped them, well that is saying something if you ask me. That God's message spread so much, that it was actually His message that brought them back into the land of Israel. God used His word to bring about His promises.

Ultimately, everything lines up, and more evidence is being uncovered.

none of this stuff means anything at all.

#38 Matthias

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:07 PM

I know Christianity spread throughout the region. At around 81 CE, when Peter's Letters were written about the persecution going on at the time.


There was persecution when Paul preached in that area. I imagine Peter also travelled these roads as well. Now history may record some kind of great persecution in that area at that time, but there was always persecution everywhere they preached. I don't see the significance here.

#39 rodeo

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:25 PM

There was persecution when Paul preached in that area. I imagine Peter also travelled these roads as well. Now history may record some kind of great persecution in that area at that time, but there was always persecution everywhere they preached. I don't see the significance here.

Really? You don't? I thought I was pretty clear.

Peter didn't write the Epistles of Peter. They were written at least 70-90 CE, though most scholars (historical and biblical) think centuries later than that. Almost no one argues that Peter could have written them.

Clear enough?

#40 pstall

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:30 PM

what was the purpose of Peter being chosen as one of the 12?

#41 Matthias

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:35 PM

Really? You don't? I thought I was pretty clear.

Peter didn't write the Epistles of Peter. They were written at least 70-90 CE, though most scholars (historical and biblical) think centuries later than that. Almost no one argues that Peter could have written them.

Clear enough?


I don't know about that. Some argue because these letters were written mostly in Greek, the jewish disciples couldn't have written them. Yet we already know Paul was educated and had Roman citizenship. We know many people from different backgrounds became Christians within a short amount of time. (The preaching of Christianity began in 33 AD, and we know most of the letters in the Bible were written 20-30 years after that) Peter probably had a scribe with him to write his letters, as well as the other apostles. There's nothing within 1 Peter that says it was written much later than when Christ was on the earth.

#42 rodeo

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:45 AM

I already pointed out the evidence that it was written later. The first recorded evidence or account of the persecution of Christians was under Domitian around 80-90 CE. There is no evidence it ever happened before that.

The first reference in all of Asian Minor to Christians there was by Pliny the Younger in 112 CE. He wrote Rome and said he'd had Christians in his lands for 20 years (90 CE) and asked for advice on dealing with them.

All these separate events all pointing to the same small timeframe for the beginning of Christian persecution match the content of the first epistle, and indicate it was written around 80-90 CE. There's no evidence that it was written earleir.

#43 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:33 AM

You don't want me to get started on explaining Genesis. You wouldn't understand it, so I'll leave that alone for now.


Apparently...and congratulations on your knowledge about the subject as I basically just watch Passion of the Christ while listening to Dark Side of the Moon at the same time as my own biblical study.

I also know a lot about Homer's Illiad...but that is just a silly myth.

A serious question about Genesis: Do you prefer with Peter Gabriel or not? Id say with but you will never air drum better than me on "In the Air tonight"..don't get me started!

#44 Zod

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:10 AM

There is zero concrete evidence that Jesus was who Christians believe him to be.

It is a matter of faith, as it should be.

#45 rodeo

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:23 AM

Apparently...and congratulations on your knowledge about the subject as I basically just watch Passion of the Christ while listening to Dark Side of the Moon at the same time as my own biblical study.

I also know a lot about Homer's Illiad...but that is just a silly myth.

A serious question about Genesis: Do you prefer with Peter Gabriel or not? Id say with but you will never air drum better than me on "In the Air tonight"..don't get me started!

"You wouldn't understand it" was a very condescending thing for him to say, from someone who is unable to provide even a shred of evidence to back up their claim.


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