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10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus


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#46 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:27 AM

There is zero concrete evidence that Jesus was who Christians believe him to be.

It is a matter of faith, as it should be.


But what about the Air Drumming to "In the Air Tonight?" That is real..

#47 Cat

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:30 AM

So it's not like Jesus then. I suppose we can say the American Revolutionary War didn't take place, because I found 20,000 fictional wars in the library just like it.




Logically, any similarities Jesus shares with past god's does not prove Jesus wasn't a true god or didn't exist.

However I do think extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I've NEVER seen anyone walk on water, raise from the dead, or be born of a virgin and . For me to believe such a thing I'd likely have to see it with my own eyes.

#48 Cat

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:34 AM

with the exception of Jesus in this list, which other person are some of you guys TRULY following? otherwise you are just throwing stones for no productive reason.

tell me about your walk with Hindu, or Buddha or any of the others. how have they transformed your life and what is about them that makes it attractive to me or anybody else here?

i got time. go ahead.


Walk? Such silly church talk.


Show me all the evidence that proves some spirit/god is changing you. Non-falisifiable claims are as worthless as whether or not those previous gods are similar to jesus.

#49 Cat

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:38 AM

Holy crap you suck at this. Peter's letters are a first hand account of Jesus, even though they were letters to Asia Minor about Christian persocution there when Christianity wasn't even established there for decades or centuries until after Jesus and Peter were long dead.

if you can't even prove that the dude even freaking existed just what exactly do you base your whole belief system on? this is basic, entry level stuff and you can't provide even a shred.




There are no first hand accounts of Jesus. Oldest stuff we got is from Paul who never met Jesus. (well he claims Jesus appeared to him after his death.) Everything else is not a first hand account of Jesus, at least that is what the textual critic college professors conclude...well the ones that don't teach at evangelical colleges.

#50 Matthias

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

I already pointed out the evidence that it was written later. The first recorded evidence or account of the persecution of Christians was under Domitian around 80-90 CE. There is no evidence it ever happened before that.

The first reference in all of Asian Minor to Christians there was by Pliny the Younger in 112 CE. He wrote Rome and said he'd had Christians in his lands for 20 years (90 CE) and asked for advice on dealing with them.

All these separate events all pointing to the same small timeframe for the beginning of Christian persecution match the content of the first epistle, and indicate it was written around 80-90 CE. There's no evidence that it was written earleir.


You're referring to a government approved persecution. You don't think Christians in general were persecuted back then before an official decree of persecution? Nero persecuted Christians in Rome around 64 AD/CE, you don't think that would kind of spark a persecution throughout the empire at that time?

Yet let's stay with that date. You say Pliny recognized Christians in that area around 90 AD/CE, yet we have letters from Paul and in the Acts that state Paul went up and down the Roman Empire preaching Christianity. He went all over, including Asia Minor. He established churces in Asia Minor as well. All of this took place between 33 AD/CE-60's AD/CE. So there is no question there were established churches in the Asia Minor well before 90 AD/CE. Paul's letters also mentions he spent quite a bit of time with Peter, even correcting him once for showing favortism of Jewish believers. So he and Paul were well aquainted. Peter would know where Paul preached, and the churches he established. The letters themselves are my proof there were Christians in that area well before 90 AD/CE.

A lot of time those professors who critique the Gospel letters and so on, refuse to acknowledge the things even said in the letters. They only see what they want to see, and then try to find justification outside that would discredit their authenticity. I'm not being a biased individual when I say this either, it's so blatantly obvious. They say Peter for instance, couldn't be the author of those letters because it's written in Greek. A poorly educated hebrew wouldn't have that kind of skill. Yet when you take another look, Peter grew up around hellenistic jews, and he had many years to travel the world and convert greek peoples throughout the Roman Empire. (Just like Paul, who by the way was educated, and had dual citizenship. And I mention again Peter and Paul spent a lot of time together)

So I have more than enough evidence to say Peter's letters could have been written much earlier than that. There were established churches by Paul himself, there in Asia Minor.

"You wouldn't understand it" was a very condescending thing for him to say, from someone who is unable to provide even a shred of evidence to back up their claim.


Not condescending at all. I don't want to write detailed paragraphs about the subject, only to be met with a sarcastic response. It does take me effort to write such things, and I don't want to waste my time if I'm not going to get a serious response for it. I'm sure we all can understand that. Yet even with that said, there are definitely things people won't be able to understand about what is written in the Bible. Why do you think Jesus spoke in parables? There are many Christians who wouldn't understand some of the things I talk about, and I don't say that in a prideful manner. (I'm just not a traditional Christian by any means)

Logically, any similarities Jesus shares with past god's does not prove Jesus wasn't a true god or didn't exist.

However I do think extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I've NEVER seen anyone walk on water, raise from the dead, or be born of a virgin and . For me to believe such a thing I'd likely have to see it with my own eyes.


I definitely respect that. In fact people misunderstand what the word faith means. It's not about believeing in something you don't know exist. Its about trusting someone's word, who you know exist. I have good reason to believe not only is God real, but also I trust His words. I'm involved in bringing in more evidence of God's existence and that Christ is who He said He is.

#51 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

"You wouldn't understand it" was a very condescending thing for him to say, from someone who is unable to provide even a shred of evidence to back up their claim.


It is the way of the righteous...

He could explain the whole McRib to woman, Creation in 6 days, Snakes and fruit but it is too complicated.... and me no understand..as I see fireball you call Sun no in sky today.

#52 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:30 PM

Not condescending at all. NO?

I don't want to write detailed paragraphs about the subject, only to be met with a sarcastic response. It does take me effort to write such things, and I don't want to waste my time if I'm not going to get a serious response for it. I'm sure we all can understand that.

Yet even with that said, there are definitely things people won't be able to understand about what is written in the Bible. Why do you think Jesus spoke in parables?

There are many Christians who wouldn't understand some of the things I talk about, and I don't say that in a prideful manner. (I'm just not a traditional Christian by any means)


By all means I don't think it was going down sarcastic avenue before you offered to type in Latin or in tongues on the Huddle as you would use words that only a civilized man who has to define reality by an all powerful, all seeing authority figure..that drives a cloud. -sarcastic response

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#53 Proudiddy

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:35 PM

There's no need for that TN. Seriously man.

#54 pstall

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

Walk? Such silly church talk.


Show me all the evidence that proves some spirit/god is changing you. Non-falisifiable claims are as worthless as whether or not those previous gods are similar to jesus.


so that's a nobody for you right?

if it's silly, why do you bother wasting your time?

#55 Kral

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:50 PM

I think the idea is that Jesus, as a person, isn't fictional, just a lot of the story attributed to him.


Prove Jesus ever existed. When you cite Josephus I will then ask you to prove that Josephus is not just repeating hearsay given he wrote letters several decades after Jesus's supposed death and never met Jesus (Yeshua) himself.

Also given that zombies were never reported anywhere outside the NT I would say the entire sacrifice story should be cast into great doubt.

#56 Kral

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:54 PM

There are no first hand accounts of Jesus. Oldest stuff we got is from Paul who never met Jesus. (well he claims Jesus appeared to him after his death.) Everything else is not a first hand account of Jesus, at least that is what the textual critic college professors conclude...well the ones that don't teach at evangelical colleges.


The only unbiased evidence is from Josephus. See my post above.

#57 Kral

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:56 PM

Logically, any similarities Jesus shares with past god's does not prove Jesus wasn't a true god or didn't exist.

However I do think extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I've NEVER seen anyone walk on water, raise from the dead, or be born of a virgin and . For me to believe such a thing I'd likely have to see it with my own eyes.


EVEN IF he did all of those things they would not prove that he was a god, son of a god, or anything at all other than an individual with seemingly magical abilities or advanced technology for the time.

#58 Cat

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:07 PM

EVEN IF he did all of those things they would not prove that he was a god, son of a god, or anything at all other than an individual with seemingly magical abilities or advanced technology for the time.


Agreed

Also Josephus never met Jesus or atleast didnt claim to. Not really a first hand account.

#59 Cat

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

so that's a nobody for you right?

if it's silly, why do you bother wasting your time?


Cause deep down I really believe. Lol nah because today I got to hear and read multiple people blame the shooting because there is no prayer in school. Thats one of many reasons.


#60 googoodan

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:02 PM

Can't we resurrect the last Zeitgeist thread where this was mocked?


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